Rebeka Breder trying to ban Wolf an Bear hunting

[horshur]

You are debating with someone who believes animals are sentient beings and by definition we as hunters are exploiting them. "Truth" Remember she comes from a place of virtue(anti exploitation ) We cannot hold that position. You can only corner them in thier own dichotomies. You are arguing with someone who holds a totaly different world view. They are hypocrites too, shine a light on that. "Sentient" is a social construct not unlike God is it not?

[puddlejumper]

I personally thought he sounded like the kid in elementary school who only come back was “ I know you are but what am I “. He could have referenced the North American wildlife model or biologists when responding to questions about safe allowable harvest numbers or how game populations are estimated.

Wholly shit I though I had seen everything, but I am to be corrected again. j270wsm, it will be you, LBM, Jager and others that will bellyaching on this forum in a few years wondering why you aren't hunting wolves and bears and you will be blaming Jesse for not doing enough. You don't think the lawyer will be monitoring this site to discredit any spokesperson that has the resources to defend a sustainable hunt for food and the protection of ungulates, and here are you donkeys just adding to the argument for the ban.

Jesse did a fantastic job of sticking to the facts and data, in a volatile situation, where there is no rationalization with the other side due to their emotional connection to the subject matter, you stick to the facts, if you have to keep repeating those facts then so be it, but don't waver.

I cannot believe half the shit that is spewed out on this forum. There are some real intelligent people then there are those that just don't get it.

[adriaticum]

You sound like you’re living in 1973! K

Close, I live in 1984

[HighCountryBC]

Wholly shit I though I had seen everything, but I am to be corrected again. j270wsm, it will be you, LBM, Jager and others that will bellyaching on this forum in a few years wondering why you aren't hunting wolves and bears and you will be blaming Jesse for not doing enough. You don't think the lawyer will be monitoring this site to discredit any spokesperson that has the resources to defend a sustainable hunt for food and the protection of ungulates, and here are you donkeys just adding to the argument for the ban.

Jesse did a fantastic job of sticking to the facts and data, in a volatile situation, where there is no rationalization with the other side due to their emotional connection to the subject matter, you stick to the facts, if you have to keep repeating those facts then so be it, but don't waver.

I cannot believe half the shit that is spewed out on this forum. There are some real intelligent people then there are those that just don't get it.

It's always the people who contribute the least, that have the most to say. We see it time and time again with the same posters in threads like these.

I agree, Jesse did a fantastic job and Rebeka basically conceded at the end when she said "at the end of the day the numbers don't really matter."

[Jamesonm]

I don't think there's anything I love more than hunting. The wilderness; the respect for the quarry; learning about the animal in an intimate way; harvesting meat not from a giant kill farm (not pumped full of junk).

Even my mother-in-law doesn't like hunting but eats meat all the time. People just don't get it and are so far remove from where their food comes from it's ridiculous.

!!PRO HUNTING!!

[adriaticum]

You are debating with someone who believes animals are sentient beings and by definition we as hunters are exploiting them. "Truth" Remember she comes from a place of virtue(anti exploitation ) We cannot hold that position. You can only corner them in thier own dichotomies. You are arguing with someone who holds a totaly different world view. They are hypocrites too, shine a light on that. "Sentient" is a social construct not unlike God is it not?

I do understand what you are saying.

Animals are sentient beings.
So what?
Do you think cheetas really care that gazelles are sentient beings?
Maybe we should stop cheetas from eating gazelles. Catch them all and feed them all grass, so they learn the benefits of vegeterian diet.
Why do grizzlies eat elk calfs when they are sentient?
Do you think I am going to get into a debate with someone about this?

Do you think nature really cares that "eaters" don't care that "eatees" are sentient, caring, family oriented animals?
Are cheetas exploiting gazelles?
Are orcas exploiting salmon?

My point is this. We have invented so many bullshit terms like sport hunting, trophy hunting etc. I don't know who invented these terms but I don't like them.
And we are digging ourselves into a deeper hole by using these super duper stupid terms. I can't persuade most people that these terms are destroying our hunting heritage.

We hunt for food and food only.
If we don't hunt for food, we hunt to protect the food source.
We hunt because we are diy-ers in procurement of food.
Just like you try to change the oil on your truck as much as possible, we try to procure our own food as much as possible.

The only thing that can prevent me from hunting is a scientific consensus that it's not sustainable due to over hunting.

The days of the "English hunting model" are long over. The reason people don't hunt in many places in the world is because they have hunted everything to extinction pretty much.
But this is not the case in BC and we need to fight to preserve that. And be careful that we don't overharvest our wild game.

Nobody questions first nations why they hunt and all these anti-hunting groups who want everyone to stop hunting want to allow first nations to continue to hunt because for them it's "sustenance" hunt.
You don't see anti-hunting groups going on reserve and protesting first nations hunts.
For us it's also a sustenance hunt.

I agree with f350ps that Jesse's performance was not that good, it seems that he was busy with something else during the interview. His breething was not normal.
It is very difficult to get your point across in radio interviews. He wasn't prepared I think.
We don't hunt to enjoy the outdoors. That argument can be defeated by an 12 year old.
You can enjoy the outdoors without something getting killed.
There are many ways to enjoy the outdoors.
Enjoyment of the outdoors is a side effect and a reason we enjoy going hunting and fishing againg and again even if we don't bring anything home.
We hunt to eat organic, non spoiled, food as much as possible.
The way nature intended it.

I think just having this discussion on the radio is a defeat for hunters and fishermen.
That woman, however dumb and uneducated, won that just by having the discussion.
The words don't matter because most people don't understand them anyway.

[Arctic Lake]

On the above note we could argue that man in general has been hunting since the beginning , just the same as the FN !
Arctic Lake

[Rob Chipman]

It's a tough discussion to have because anti-hunters (as opposed to non-hunters) are often pretty irrational and like to move the goals posts. That saying "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't come to by reason" applies.



Jesse did pretty well in that interview. He wasn't in complete control of who said what and when, and I would assume he was expecting a more rational opponent, but I think we did fail a little bit on the science side of black bear populations, and we can do better. I think he made the points about following science and what BC hunters' motivations really are, so that's a positive.

Still, I'm chalking that interview up as a win. First, he did a better job than I could of and second, Rebeka Breder didn't help her cause much with her statements.

(Sidebar - the same week that the wolf trapping SM brouhaha and this radio interview hit the news there were also multiple news stories about cougars strolling through the residential streets of Coquitlam, killing pets and following teenagers. My latest understanding its that COs dispatched one juvenile cougar and are looking for the mother. Latte sipping people were on Global News saying it's unacceptable that people can't walk their dogs in the backyard without living in fear of a cougar attack. None of us on this forum celebrate wildlife death that comes from urban/wildlife conflicts, but it's pretty clear that some people in the 604 aren't looking at things through rose coloured glasses, and that news does get air time, and it's always good when real life makes the news).


But the issue is also complex because hunters haven't talked it through enough on our own side. We're still at a stage where we don't agree on a lot of basic things, and we need to work through them and come up with some solid responses.

Are animals sentient?

Is it ok to kill sentient beings?

Why do we hunt?

Why do we call it "sport hunting"?

Where did that term, and trophy hunting, and recreational hunting, come from?

Are they appropriate terms to use today or have they been completely weaponized?

Who is our target audience for these things?

We want to follow science, but does that mean there is enough science?

If there isn't enough science, isn't that a problem itself?


I'm sure there's more to add to that list, but I think it would be worthwhile for as many of us as possible to get on the same page on those questions. We're starting to get there (look at the recent post here about why we hunt as an example), but I think we need to keep talking about these issues and then get coherent, effective consensus answers. Motivation for hunting is just one example: there can be more than one motivation and we can still be on the same page if we reach a consensus that we hunt for....multiple good reasons.

[ACE]

I think just having this discussion on the radio is a defeat for hunters and fishermen.
That woman, however dumb and uneducated, won that just by having the discussion.
The words don't matter because most people don't understand them anyway.

^^ This is the basis of the never ending debate. She/anti doesn't have to be rational or logical. They have won the debate just because they show up. The Mike Smythe's love this kind of thing . . . . . and we collectively 'bite every time'.
The dumbest fish in the pond is the one with all the hooks in its mouth. That's us.
Good post adriaticum!

[adriaticum]

^ I can see why some might think the Jesse did better. He was calmer and Mike Smyth was supportive of him because he knows him better. Also his general demeanor is always good. He never loses his cool (at least what I know).
But Jesse's counter arguments were not good in my view.
For Radio interviews I always found it better to read my points from a previously prepared list than winging it.
Even if the host is supportive, you are always on the clock.