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Thread: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

  1. #41
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    If you presented on social media the industrial meat processing factory slaughter machine killing millions of chickens, sheep, pigs, cattle etc for the great masses (who live in cities) perhaps that would also help along with wolves eating the newborn .... pot calling the kettle black. And at least the meat we eat has a chance to get away could be the caption.

  2. #42
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaScene View Post
    If you presented on social media the industrial meat processing factory slaughter machine killing millions of chickens, sheep, pigs, cattle etc for the great masses (who live in cities) perhaps that would also help along with wolves eating the newborn .... pot calling the kettle black. And at least the meat we eat has a chance to get away could be the caption.
    I see things just as you have stated, but shock therapy and logic are not going to solve this issue. In my mind there are two issues here. First and foremost is that a lot of society is completely detached from nature due to the nature of industrialization. They don't need to hunt or gather food anymore. They just go to the grocery store. Therefore they are detached from the reality that in order for them to live animals such as live stock must die. Because few if any of them have ever been in a slaughterhouse they don't appreciate the fact that they are an apex predator and part of that is eating meat. And they definitely don't want to see dead animals and blood. It shatters the lie they are living. Secondly and more to the point from a hunting perspective, there is way to much ego attached to our sport. All the people who have to post their conquest or hunting success for all to see on social media, like it some how validates them is the real issue. They don't seem to understand these types of posts offend a lot of people. Some of this offended group is just looking for this type of post so they can use it against us. Hunters in general need to learn very quickly to be more discrete and only share their hunts with those who are supportive. Until they learn this things will continue down the same road. Ask yourself "Why do I hunt". Is it because I enjoy the outdoors, the challenge, harvesting natural food, or is because I need validation. If you need validation, hunting doesn't need you.

  3. #43
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Well said... I agree. The only validation should (rightly) be at the dinner table...

  4. #44
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaScene View Post
    Well said... I agree. The only validation should (rightly) be at the dinner table...
    Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible
    I won't always be young, but I can be immature forever

  5. #45
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by 325 View Post
    Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible
    Absolutely spot on, but people need to get past posting the results of their activities. That is what is sinking us, and now limiting our ability to be proactive in this process. Every time some posts results of their wolf harvesting activities, there is kick back or worse. Now you have a Government who is forced to act based on our collective response to predator management. They are not going to side with us because predator harvesting in general is a very controversial and politically volatile topic. Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest. You saw this with the Grizzly Bear hunt, and unfortunately we as a hunting community did not learn any lessons from that experience, so now we get to do it again with wolves, and again come out on the loosing end.

  6. #46
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Hmmmm,...the bag limit in region 1 is already set at 3, how is one person going to take out a pack if it's more than 3?

  7. #47
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    "Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible"

    That is a fact. There's a problem, though, in that you can't reason a person out of a position they didn't come to through reason.

    I think we need to develop a way of communicating the message that predator management has it's place, and that eating a hunted animal is not the only legitimate reason to hunt and kill that animal.

    That message needs to be targeted not so much at anti-hunters, but at non-hunters.


    "
    Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest."

    That's the danger. We saw that with the G-bear hunt. That said, I think that the government right now is showing some restraint and I think we should recognize that. It would be quite popular in much of the province to simply ban predator hunting, or make it an even bigger and more controversial issue, like what we saw with G-bears.

    Instead it seems that the government may be trying to stick with science while navigating a social media micro-crisis - the Minister has announced she closing a "loophole" rather than coming out on the side of anti-predator control people. Loss? Win? Somewhere in between? It certainly could be worse, as we know from experience.


    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  8. #48
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    "Predator management is a key part of sound wildlife management. Not all predators are considered edible"

    That is a fact. There's a problem, though, in that you can't reason a person out of a position they didn't come to through reason.

    I think we need to develop a way of communicating the message that predator management has it's place, and that eating a hunted animal is not the only legitimate reason to hunt and kill that animal.

    That message needs to be targeted not so much at anti-hunters, but at non-hunters.


    "
    Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest."

    That's the danger. We saw that with the G-bear hunt. That said, I think that the government right now is showing some restraint and I think we should recognize that. It would be quite popular in much of the province to simply ban predator hunting, or make it an even bigger and more controversial issue, like what we saw with G-bears.

    Instead it seems that the government may be trying to stick with science while navigating a social media micro-crisis - the Minister has announced she closing a "loophole" rather than coming out on the side of anti-predator control people. Loss? Win? Somewhere in between? It certainly could be worse, as we know from experience.


    Good Post Sir
    In response to the points you made, hear are my thoughts/suggestions. You mention that eating what you hunt is not always achievable. They eat dog in some societies don't they? LOL. But seriously it has always amazed me what hypocrites people are. The same people who are against trophy hunting, hunting, trapping, predator management, are the same people who with out hesitation will kill a rat, a mouse, a fly, a wasp etc. and think nothing of it. In my world life is life is life. No one is any less valuable than the next. But some how the anti's use the cuteness factor or treat a particular species like a personality. And use this logic to determine whether things should live or die. The whole wolf thing on Discovery Island is a good example. The wolf goes from predator to icon status and next thing you know is representative of all wolves. None should be hunted because their cute and no one eats them. No one eats rats either, but they kill them? Where's the movement to protect rats? I think people need to be challenged in a respectful way to point out the hypocrisy of their actions. When they eat any meat they kill things by extension. When they kill what they perceive as vermin or annoyances they are taking a life, and mostly needlessly. Until the general public understands this and treats wild things as wild, you can't begin a rational conversation, because their judgement is clouded by the media and emotion.

    AS to the Government response to this. I think they are presently between a rock and a hard place. Yes they could ban trapping or hunting of wolves and the anti's would rejoice. But on the other hand they would probably get a lot of kick back from guide outfitters and ranchers. I think the Government is trying to look like they are doing something, while doing as little as possible, because they realize the economic hit they would take if ranching and guide outfitting ceased in this province because of wolves. The Government needs to take leadership role in this and let the science guide them. Let the public know the pro's and con's of ignoring predator control. We will see where this ends up.

  9. #49
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Conservation has a criminal hustler element. There are big bucks to be made playing on guilt of mass, city based consumer culture.... millions of dollars easy money. Bloody images of forest animals what kind of person are you not to assist in our sacrifice to save them. Ontario Fed of Anglers and Hunters over 100,000 members as I recollect grew successful by pointing out to members the bad optics of animal carcass tied up over the car hood and roof ... and in later campaigns with web based forums and publications not to post gore.

  10. #50
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    Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't come to through reason.


    "
    Government is going to do what ever is politically expedient, in spite of what science might other wise suggest."
    That's the danger. We saw that with the G-bear hunt.
    Your first statement I quoted is perfection.

    On the second, I’m assuming you saw how fast California back pedalled away from its proposed bear hunting ban? It went from “we’re going to ban bear hunting” to “oh, sorry, we’re actually not banning bear hunting” in about 3 days. Not sure on the whole story there, but I bet it’s good!
    If we’re not supposed to eat animals, how come they’re made out of meat?

    BHA, BCWF, CCFR, PETA, Lever Action Addict.

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