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Thread: Spotting scopes

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Aldergrove, BC
    Posts
    4,466

    Re: Spotting scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by KodiakHntr View Post
    Partially true perhaps. What do you use?



    Here is something that not everyone on a forum will understand: everyone has an opinion on any given topic. But not all of those opinions have the same value. There is a big difference in value between the “I use this because it was the best I could afford and I read a lot of reviews and other guys in the same situation as me bought this so you should buy one too to validate my opinion” and the guys who are saying “Hey I tried one of these and one of these and one of these and one of these, and THIS one was a noticeable improvement over that and that and that in this situation and under these conditions”.

    The value of good optics, for the guys who actually use them effectively and properly, doesn’t have a price. Good optics weigh nothing and cost nothing in comparison to their value on a hunt.
    Now if you are a deer hunter who is happy with a spike muley every year, you probably don’t NEED a pair of EL’s and a Leica spotter.
    If you are on a sheep hunt and time is a much more valuable commodity, then it is a lot easier to justify quality optics. For the guys that are serious about their time hunting anything, optics are easier to justify.

    Just need to be honest with yourself about your level of commitment and your priorities in life.
    See, this is where you're wrong. If you really wanted the BEST, and optics trully "doesn't have a price" and "weigh nothing and cost nothing in comparison", you wouldn't be using the standard issue 65mm swarovski everyone else uses.
    You'd be using the 95mm, with the dual-eye piece set up coming in at probably $6,000 or something crazy like that.

    Why don't you see too many guys using that? well ... i assume even the most dedicated sheep hunters draw a line somewhere. Both as far as weight and as far as price.

    Your level of committment has nothing to do with optics. Guys truly commited to a goal will get it done at any cost just like they did before carrying a spotting scope around was even a thing.
    Many guys buy spotters that collect dust on the shelf.
    Many guys hunt with inferior optics and still do well.
    Many guys are commited as hell chasing animals in terrain where spotters aren't even used and are highly successful (whitetails, blacktails etc)

    The fact of the matter is this: People see a lot of stuff they want. People have disposable income. People buy/upgrade things all the time. Trucks, houses, computers, phones, fashion items, whatever. Hunting gear is no different. If you see it, if you want it, if you can afford it you buy it!

    To tell someone they neeeeeeeeed to save up for a year and skimp on things just to buy something they may not even use to its full potential is absurd. Go on a computer forum and guys will tell you how you neeeeeeeed to save for that $2000 monitor.


    What do you use?
    I use a Vortex Razor

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Northern BC
    Posts
    3,094

    Re: Spotting scopes

    I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

    I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

    I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
    Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
    If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
    That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
    But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
    However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


    The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
    Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
    But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
    Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
    If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

    Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
    And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

    If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.


  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Lower Mainland
    Posts
    346

    Re: Spotting scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by KodiakHntr View Post
    I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

    I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

    I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
    Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
    If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
    That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
    But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
    However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


    The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
    Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
    But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
    Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
    If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

    Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
    And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

    If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.
    This might be one of the most well put posts I've ever seen on here. Well said.
    Life begins where your comfort zone ends

    WSSBC Monarch; RMGA; 2% for Conservation Certified; WSF; BCWF

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Haney,BC and anywhere you can hunt in BC out of the rain !
    Posts
    8,652

    Re: Spotting scopes

    Ive used several spotters over the years and started with a straight bodied 25x50mm Leupold Goldring spotting scope and honesty I thought if this is what using a spotting scope is all about Ill stick to my Leica Binoculars..............it had very stiff focus wheel and every time you tried to adjust it it moved the scope off the animal, it was useless in low light and being straight tubed I quickly realized if I was ever getting another spotting scope it was going to be angled

    Ive used since then Vortex Viper HD 65mm angled 1st gen, Vortex Razor HD 65mm angled 1st gen, Swarovski 65mm Straight, Leica 25-50x65 angled is what I still use with the 1.8 Doubler which makes it 40-90x and I use it a lot, would like to try it on the 85mm version.

    4 of us compared the Viper HD,Razor HD and the Leica side by side, the Razor and the Leica were a bit better optically than the Viper, the biggest thing for me was the functionality of the Leica compared to the Viper, ease of use with the focus wheel, then the compactness of the Razor and the Leica compared to the Viper

    3 of the 4 of us couldn't see a difference in the optics with the Razor and the Leica, one liked the Leica better, we all seen a difference over the Viper with the Razor and the Leica but not as much as you would have thought,

    Overall I found the functions of the Leica best and having the option of the 1.8 doubler sold me, but anyone using the Vortex Razor HD will be pretty happy, I see the latest version of the Vortex Viper HD is much more streamlined than the 1st generation so should be much more user friendly.

    1- I would recommend an angled spotting scope for sheep hunting or Alpine hunting
    2- Get a 65mm objective or bigger, 65mm seems to be the most practical from a back packers perspective
    3- I prefer the top side focus wheels instead of the bands on the body.
    4- if you can borrow a spotter for a few days and see likes and dislikes of what you have
    5- go to a store and check few different ones out





    Heres the first generation of the Viper HD
    Last edited by Weatherby Fan; 02-03-2021 at 05:49 PM.
    7mm PRC soon to be the most popular cartridge in North America

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Peace Country
    Posts
    2,104

    Re: Spotting scopes

    I’m very happy with my vortex razor. But I got mine new for 1199 on sale.

    if I was to pay today’s prices... I’d go Swarovski most likely.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    2,322

    Re: Spotting scopes

    My razor works well, but I don't glass with it. I mainly just use it to look at burnt stumps that I see with my binos and think might be bears.

    I use a straight eyepiece, as I just couldn't get used to using the angled one.

    I bought a decent Manfrotto with a fluid head. I think this helps a lot.
    When in doubt, just pin it.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    35

    Re: Spotting scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by whitlers View Post
    Haha this seems to be typical of Vortex glass. I sent a rifle scope back and my partner a Razor spotter and a pair of Razor binos with the same black dot. Their QC is crap.

    That being said if you can find one without a black dot you should be fine haha.
    i just sent a swarovski back because of a black dot

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    134

    Re: Spotting scopes

    I bought a new razor 16-48 last year $900 to my door, see used ones for more. Excellent deal as that’s all I could afford. Buddies swaro is a bit better no doubt. If I had the money I’d buy swaro. Since I’m spotting scope poor and want lifetime warranty, the razor fits the bill. Wouldn’t want to go less then that quality for ranges i glass.
    if lots of glassing, high end 15x binos off a monopod is the cats as*. Have the zeiss and hopefully one day able to upgrade to the swaro as the zeiss have had issues. Firm believer in buy once cry once is I’ve learned the hard way
    and yes the vortex focus wheel has an issue, but it’s better quality build then the zeiss, and lifetime warranty vs five years

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Aldergrove, BC
    Posts
    4,466

    Re: Spotting scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by KodiakHntr View Post
    I don't think you fully read my post. Or you didn't understand it, one or the other.

    I don't have a 95 mm Swarovski because for me, I can't justify the cost increase for the performance upgrade over what I have now. Same reason that I don't have a $4500 Leica spotter. I know it is a little sharper than my 65mm Swarovski, because I have used one side by side with the mine. Same way I know that the Swarovski is noticeably better than a $700 Leupold or Bushnell, I have bought and compared them side by side, and the Leupold and Bushnell are sitting on a shelf in the garage someplace. I am sure as hell not telling anyone they need to buy top of the line anything, but I am also not telling them than a Swarovski is going to be comparable to a sub $1000 whatever, because it isn't. Not in every condition, but in some there may not be much difference.

    I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but I'm going to assume that you aren't.
    Some games are played most effectively with the correct equipment. Some equipment is noticeably better when you spend the money on it.
    If you take a dedicated 25 year old who has one goal in life of say killing a grand slam, and he spends 7 days a week in the gym for 6 months prior to sheep season and arms himself with a 30/30 and a pair of gray sweats and a blue tarp and is prepared to eat blueberries and black flies he finds on the ground, he will not be as effective as the same kid with top shelf gear, proper nutrition, and the knowledge of how to use it. That first kid might get lucky and it won't rain or snow, and he might bump a ram at 25 yards on the first couple hours of walking in his Air Jordans that stands around long enough for him to be fully confident that ram is legal. OR, he might get rained on, be miserable, and not be effective and see a ram at 700 yards that is bedded and watching him slowly shiver to death.
    That second kid might be under a siltarp, warm and dry in his puffy pants, sitting behind good glass watching that ram and formulating a plan to kill him.
    But in both cases, that kid is out hunting to the best of his ability, with the gear he has, and no one can fault a guy for getting out there.
    However, appropriate gear for the task at hand makes a difference, and in a lot of stuff it is a trade off on how much you are going to use it. Some of us actually use gear more than 5 days a year, and have bought different levels of equipment trying to find what works for us and what doesn't. Guys that have tried it all and settled on what they consider to be "good enough" have a better idea of what will actually work in most conditions.


    The rest of your post simply reinforces my position (whether you realize it or not).
    Some games require the right equipment to be effective. Some games can be played with minimal equipment, and you can still be successful. Nobody is saying that you need $7k worth of glass to hunt deer in the brush. I DO know that glass makes a hunter more effective in ALL situations. I know that $100 binoculars are better than no binoculars. I know that $600 binoculars are better than $100 binoculars. In optical quality, and reliability. Glass is one of the few things where cost is directly corelated to quality.
    But I'm not saying that every hunter is going to know how to use glass properly, or effectively. And based on each individual hunters expectations for their overall hunting experience, it may not be important, or needed.
    Glass is a personal decision based on commitment levels to the game, and life priorities. If you hunt 5 days a year by driving around on a side by side for chickens and your biggest sense of fulfillment comes from the atmosphere after the days hunt in camp and the companionship of your buddies, then you probably won't ever justify the expense of a $700 Leupold spotter.
    If you are dedicated to being as effective as you possibly can so that you are seeing the most animals with the least amount of effort expended on sub par or sub legal animals, then good glass becomes a good expenditure of money. If your life priorities dictates that $700 is absolute maximum that you can spend on a spotter, then buy that $700 Leupold and learn how to use it to the maximum benefit that you can get out of it. But don't try to throw shade on the guy that spend the money on Alpha glass AND learned how to use that to the best of its ability. That guy makes a conscious decision that the money was worthwhile to him, and he will make a sacrifice someplace else to make up the difference.

    Nobody is saying that spending more money will make you a better hunter, but spending good money after bad isn't a wise choice no matter what the situation.
    And again, be honest with yourself and your expectations and realistic in your level of use, and make decisions accordingly. If your personal priority is hunting animals that require glassing, then decide what your personal comfort level is for spending, and then work towards that goal. If you don't achieve that goal in the time frame you are hoping and a hunt comes up, borrow whatever you can, and go hunt. More equipment won't make a person a better hunter, but it might make your hunt more enjoyable on a personal comfort level. And that might be the difference between success and failure.

    If a guy is willing to hunt with gear that isn't as capable as other stuff on the market that costs more, there is nothing saying that he won't be successful. BUT, he might have to work harder, or be less comfortable doing it to get it done. Or he might get lucky. That's all. It's all a trade off. Either you trade dollars for equipment that make things easier, or you trade personal comfort and keep your dollars for other things and possibly work harder to kill stuff.
    Oh so now good optics DO have a price? And the weight DOES matter?

    Ok. Got it

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Northern BC
    Posts
    3,094

    Re: Spotting scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by twoSevenO View Post
    Oh so now good optics DO have a price? And the weight DOES matter?

    Ok. Got it

    Ahhh, ok, you are being deliberately obtuse. Ok, got it.


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