Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

[Rob Chipman]

BCWF is trying to gather some data on the extent and effect of access restrictions around the province.

We don't just want to know about examples of resident hunters or anglers being denied access, but also examples of people being allowed to access areas that they thought would be closed, but also those who changed their plans, people who were indeed denied access, people who may have gained access but then encountered any problems, leaving, anyone who had vehicles vandalized, and anyone who had interactions (positive, neutral or negative) with any individuals, corporations or First Nations governments, anywhere in the province.


Message me privately or post whatever you're comfortable posting. We aren't looking for anything specific - we just want intel about what occurred regarding access for hunting or angling in 2020. It's not just access restriction info we're looking for. Details about an information checkpoint that involved conversation but did not deny access would qualify, for example. Any info at all is appreciated.

Thanks!

[whitlers]

It didn't effect me personally but I did overlook Texas Creek this year as a potential early season spot due to the FN closure. I am not sure if that qualifies or if anything came out of that particular closure.

[Rymar]

I’ve also asked for more info about the Texas creek closure from the CO’s office and have heard nothing back on weather this is a legitimate closure or not. I was also personally effected when I tried to launch a boat at churn creek into the Fraser and there was a locked gated preventing access, on crown land.

[RyoTHC]

One of my moose hunting partners has a leh sheep draw he didn’t go on because the natives locally claimed the entire drainage was closed and it encompassed all his access points.

I’ll get more info and update !

[REMINGTON JIM]

One of my moose hunting partners has a leh sheep draw he didn’t go on because the natives locally claimed the entire drainage was closed and it encompassed all his access points.

I’ll get more info and update !

Now that is VERY INTERESTING Looking forward to more info ! RJ
RJ

[Walking Buffalo]

The BCWF should also look into how many years non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands now at risk of exclusion.
Since before the inclusion of B.C. into Canada?

There is a case to be made that non-Indigenous hunters now have legal standing to hunt on all non-Indian Reserve lands, regardless of who's "traditional" territory it was or is.

[Rob Chipman]

The BCWF should also look into how many years non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands now at risk of exclusion.
Since before the inclusion of B.C. into Canada?

There is a case to be made that non-Indigenous hunters now have legal standing to hunt on all non-Indian Reserve lands, regardless of who's "traditional" territory it was or is.

What would the point of doing that be? I don't understand what the argument that BCWF would make (presumably in court) is. That non-Indigenous people have the right to hunt on non-Indian Act reserve lands (and I'll assume you mean all non-private property in BC) ie, Crown land? How do you see that working?

(There isn't a need to look into how long non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands. That started as soon as non-Indigenous people arrived here. I think that is easily demonstrated. Before HBC and Nor'wester's made it to BC there were lots of Europeans on the coast, and all of it is documented).

That said, there is already a standing argument that non-Indigenous citizens of Canada have Magna Carta rights to access Crown land. (I can't make it off the top of my head, but I've seen it sketched out and it's not baseless).

I'm still not clear where you're going with this, though. BCWF has, at most, the ability to fund one or two small lawsuits. Those would have to be restricted to injunctions, I suspect. We just don't have enough funds to go further (unless resident hunters want to start a standalone, segregated, well funded war chest).

Anyway, at this stage we're looking for all aspects of access to traditional lands, whether it was allowed, partially restricted, totally restricted, or only feared that it would be restricted. Kaska Dena, for example, were reportedly going to do what Tahltan did, but in fact did not (you'll recall an Atlin local jumping on here and making that case last fall). Point being, just in the NW of the province we have 2 approaches that were 180 degrees apart from each other (at least as far as we know).

We need to figure out just what the access situation was/is.

This is incredibly important and I really need help form the forum on this. We're 7 months out from sheep, moose and some other seasons season starting. 8 months and just about everything else major opens. We can get organized now or we can wait until the last minute.

Clearly it's better to get organized now.

[Walking Buffalo]

What would the point of doing that be? I don't understand what the argument that BCWF would make (presumably in court) is. That non-Indigenous people have the right to hunt on non-Indian Act reserve lands (and I'll assume you mean all non-private property in BC) ie, Crown land? How do you see that working?

(There isn't a need to look into how long non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands. That started as soon as non-Indigenous people arrived here. I think that is easily demonstrated. Before HBC and Nor'wester's made it to BC there were lots of Europeans on the coast, and all of it is documented).

That said, there is already a standing argument that non-Indigenous citizens of Canada have Magna Carta rights to access Crown land. (I can't make it off the top of my head, but I've seen it sketched out and it's not baseless).

I'm still not clear where you're going with this, though. BCWF has, at most, the ability to fund one or two small lawsuits. Those would have to be restricted to injunctions, I suspect. We just don't have enough funds to go further (unless resident hunters want to start a standalone, segregated, well funded war chest).

Anyway, at this stage we're looking for all aspects of access to traditional lands, whether it was allowed, partially restricted, totally restricted, or only feared that it would be restricted. Kaska Dena, for example, were reportedly going to do what Tahltan did, but in fact did not (you'll recall an Atlin local jumping on here and making that case last fall). Point being, just in the NW of the province we have 2 approaches that were 180 degrees apart from each other (at least as far as we know).

We need to figure out just what the access situation was/is.

This is incredibly important and I really need help form the forum on this. We're 7 months out from sheep, moose and some other seasons season starting. 8 months and just about everything else major opens. We can get organized now or we can wait until the last minute.

Clearly it's better to get organized now.

The point of doing it is to protect non-Indigenous hunter's ability to access land to hunt.




With 100+% of B.C. being claimed as Traditional Territory, without legal standing to access Traditional Territory, B.C. hunters will soon find that while their government will sell them hunting licences, there is no land that they can legally access to hunt.


Yes, taking this to court will be a big undertaking. Larger than any court case B.C. or Canadian hunters have ever done before.
But there is no alternative.
Without legal standing to access Land, hunting by non-Indigenous hunters will soon be at the whim of First Nation governments.


The access data the BWF is seeking to collect is important.
However, it it pointless unless the real concern is addressed.


It doesn't take a visionary to see the current direction of hunting access and wildlife management.
Currently, the path leads to the end of hunting in B.C by non-Indigenous people.
It is critical that a turn is made, regardless of how difficult that first step of the Path may be.


Remember how I constantly bugged people here to recognize the importance of the B.C. government declaring hunting and fishing as Essential?
These are the little things that must be written in stone then used to hammer those that seek to take away our Natural rights.
Developing the Legal documentation of historic land use by non-indigenous peoples are part of the hammer.

[IronNoggin]

... Remember how I constantly bugged people here to recognize the importance of the B.C. government declaring hunting and fishing as Essential?
These are the little things that must be written in stone then used to hammer those that seek to take away our Natural rights.
Developing the Legal documentation of historic land use by non-indigenous peoples are part of the hammer.

BINGO!!

Very Well Said! And indeed something we best be paying rather serious attention to!!

Cheers,
Nog

[.330 Dakota]

What would the point of doing that be? I don't understand what the argument that BCWF would make (presumably in court) is. That non-Indigenous people have the right to hunt on non-Indian Act reserve lands (and I'll assume you mean all non-private property in BC) ie, Crown land? How do you see that working?

(There isn't a need to look into how long non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands. That started as soon as non-Indigenous people arrived here. I think that is easily demonstrated. Before HBC and Nor'wester's made it to BC there were lots of Europeans on the coast, and all of it is documented).

That said, there is already a standing argument that non-Indigenous citizens of Canada have Magna Carta rights to access Crown land. (I can't make it off the top of my head, but I've seen it sketched out and it's not baseless).

I'm still not clear where you're going with this, though. BCWF has, at most, the ability to fund one or two small lawsuits. Those would have to be restricted to injunctions, I suspect. We just don't have enough funds to go further (unless resident hunters want to start a standalone, segregated, well funded war chest).

Anyway, at this stage we're looking for all aspects of access to traditional lands, whether it was allowed, partially restricted, totally restricted, or only feared that it would be restricted. Kaska Dena, for example, were reportedly going to do what Tahltan did, but in fact did not (you'll recall an Atlin local jumping on here and making that case last fall). Point being, just in the NW of the province we have 2 approaches that were 180 degrees apart from each other (at least as far as we know).

We need to figure out just what the access situation was/is.

This is incredibly important and I really need help form the forum on this. We're 7 months out from sheep, moose and some other seasons season starting. 8 months and just about everything else major opens. We can get organized now or we can wait until the last minute.

Clearly it's better to get organized now.

Not sure what info you are actually seeking, but we quit hunting Region 6 due to constant interactions with the Taltan and Kaska,,,our last trip was in 2019,,tried to go into the Cassier, and the Kaska drove in and asked us to leave,,we left, as we figured if we didnt they would burn our camp when we went out for the day,,,went up to just south of the Yukon Border,,same thing happened,,,spun around and went down to Tatogga,,camped at the resort,,hunted the rail grade and encountered the Taltan in there,,just got sick of the constant harassment, so we went to the Koots this past year