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Thread: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

  1. #11
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keta1969 View Post
    Jesus they get accused of doing nothing and harassed for trying to do something. Why not participate or not and see where it goes. I don't know of another organization that is looking at this. Why not wait and see what comes out of it before sniping at them?
    ​The question was asked . . . . . you may not like the way it was asked, but it deserves an answer.
    'It would be difficult to describe the depth of my contempt for Justin Trudeau'

  2. #12
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Ace:

    That made me chuckle.


    You must be aware that a lot of people from all walks of life with all kinds of agendas monitor forums like this. Nothing is being kept secret, but there is a concept called "honesty with discretion". A public forum isn't the best place to share everything.

    Big picture I don't think anyone is confused about what's going on with this information gathering. Access is a big issue. It's going to come up again. If we're going to deal with it we need to know the extent of the problem.

    Is it all bad or is there some good?

    Are all access restrictions the same, or do they come in different forms?

    Are all reasons for access restrictions the same, or do they differ?

    Are they all initiated by FNs, or are some done by corporations?

    The more you look the more questions come up.


    If you are a member, ping me directly through here or email me at rob@robchipman.net or call me at 604-230-4225. I'll make time for you. I appreciate any help you can offer.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  3. #13
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Thanx For doing this Rob

  4. #14
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this, only heard the rumors of what was going on in region 6, which have already been posted here.

    For my 2 cents though, I'm leery of more access restrictions that solely target hunters, but I'm certainly not opposed to more vehicle closures if they were enforced. It seems there's nowhere you cant drive a vehicle in some areas and roads everywhere. Its been well documented that roads lead to serious sedimentation issues in fish bearing streams. The best of us will continue to explore beyond the crowds. But the jackass hunters, and I think we all know there are some have no interest in walking further from the truck than they can throw their beer can.

    Beyond that its not just the bottom of the barrel hunters but the offroaders too. I've lost count of how many boggy areas I saw destroyed by an atv going through, chewing it up and the next guy going a little bit wide, chewing that up and the next guy doing the same.

    Even a restriction about keeping motorized vehicles on main lines only would help if it were enforced. I know its not most people but there seem to be lots of people who think that as long as theyre not tossing empties out the window everything is good.

  5. #15
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    What would the point of doing that be? I don't understand what the argument that BCWF would make (presumably in court) is. That non-Indigenous people have the right to hunt on non-Indian Act reserve lands (and I'll assume you mean all non-private property in BC) ie, Crown land? How do you see that working?

    (There isn't a need to look into how long non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands. That started as soon as non-Indigenous people arrived here. I think that is easily demonstrated. Before HBC and Nor'wester's made it to BC there were lots of Europeans on the coast, and all of it is documented).

    That said, there is already a standing argument that non-Indigenous citizens of Canada have Magna Carta rights to access Crown land. (I can't make it off the top of my head, but I've seen it sketched out and it's not baseless).

    I'm still not clear where you're going with this, though. BCWF has, at most, the ability to fund one or two small lawsuits. Those would have to be restricted to injunctions, I suspect. We just don't have enough funds to go further (unless resident hunters want to start a standalone, segregated, well funded war chest).

    Anyway, at this stage we're looking for all aspects of access to traditional lands, whether it was allowed, partially restricted, totally restricted, or only feared that it would be restricted. Kaska Dena, for example, were reportedly going to do what Tahltan did, but in fact did not (you'll recall an Atlin local jumping on here and making that case last fall). Point being, just in the NW of the province we have 2 approaches that were 180 degrees apart from each other (at least as far as we know).

    We need to figure out just what the access situation was/is.

    This is incredibly important and I really need help form the forum on this. We're 7 months out from sheep, moose and some other seasons season starting. 8 months and just about everything else major opens. We can get organized now or we can wait until the last minute.

    Clearly it's better to get organized now.


    The point of doing it is to protect non-Indigenous hunter's ability to access land to hunt.




    With 100+% of B.C. being claimed as Traditional Territory, without legal standing to access Traditional Territory, B.C. hunters will soon find that while their government will sell them hunting licences, there is no land that they can legally access to hunt.


    Yes, taking this to court will be a big undertaking. Larger than any court case B.C. or Canadian hunters have ever done before.
    But there is no alternative.
    Without legal standing to access Land, hunting by non-Indigenous hunters will soon be at the whim of First Nation governments.


    The access data the BWF is seeking to collect is important.
    However, it it pointless unless the real concern is addressed.


    It doesn't take a visionary to see the current direction of hunting access and wildlife management.
    Currently, the path leads to the end of hunting in B.C by non-Indigenous people.
    It is critical that a turn is made, regardless of how difficult that first step of the Path may be.


    Remember how I constantly bugged people here to recognize the importance of the B.C. government declaring hunting and fishing as Essential?
    These are the little things that must be written in stone then used to hammer those that seek to take away our Natural rights.
    Developing the Legal documentation of historic land use by non-indigenous peoples are part of the hammer.

  6. #16
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    Thumbs up Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    ... Remember how I constantly bugged people here to recognize the importance of the B.C. government declaring hunting and fishing as Essential?
    These are the little things that must be written in stone then used to hammer those that seek to take away our Natural rights.
    Developing the Legal documentation of historic land use by non-indigenous peoples are part of the hammer.
    BINGO!!

    Very Well Said! And indeed something we best be paying rather serious attention to!!

    Cheers,
    Nog
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    316

    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Hey Rob...

    You might want to look into how the Sunshine Coast Regional District (SCRD) is dealing with the Province and Sechelt Indian Band re: renaming places along the Sunshine Coast. In particular, the renaming of Madeira Park.

    While technically not access, there are learning opportunities there.

  8. #18
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    Ace:
    That made me chuckle.
    The more you look the more questions come up.
    If you are a member, ping me directly through here or email me at rob@robchipman.net or call me at 604-230-4225. I'll make time for you. I appreciate any help you can offer.
    E-mail sent Rob.
    Thank you for your kind and gracious offer.
    Much appreciated.
    'It would be difficult to describe the depth of my contempt for Justin Trudeau'

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Van
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    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    "Remember how I constantly bugged people here to recognize the importance of the B.C. government declaring hunting and fishing as Essential?"

    I brought that up in discussions with FLNRORD, because as many of you may know, there are laws and then there are regulations....

    Last fall, when access restrictions became an issue, we argued that hunting and fishing had been deemed essential.

    The government, at bureaucratic regulation level said "Oh yes, 100% correct. The devil, however, is in the details, and while hunting and fishing are essential, we've looked it over and we *consider* hunting and fishing that requires travel reverts into "recreation" and so therefore is not deemed essential".

    As WB has pointed out, both in this post and earlier ones, we need to cement that advantage.



    "
    Developing the Legal documentation of historic land use by non-indigenous peoples are part of the hammer."

    Correct.

    All that said, a lot of this starts with data. If you can swamp me with access data, good, bad, indifferent, FNs, corporate, whatever, please do it. If your buddy told you a story over beers, run him down and get details.


    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,940

    Re: Access Restrictions, information checkpoints, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    What would the point of doing that be? I don't understand what the argument that BCWF would make (presumably in court) is. That non-Indigenous people have the right to hunt on non-Indian Act reserve lands (and I'll assume you mean all non-private property in BC) ie, Crown land? How do you see that working?

    (There isn't a need to look into how long non-Indigenous hunters have accessed these lands. That started as soon as non-Indigenous people arrived here. I think that is easily demonstrated. Before HBC and Nor'wester's made it to BC there were lots of Europeans on the coast, and all of it is documented).

    That said, there is already a standing argument that non-Indigenous citizens of Canada have Magna Carta rights to access Crown land. (I can't make it off the top of my head, but I've seen it sketched out and it's not baseless).

    I'm still not clear where you're going with this, though. BCWF has, at most, the ability to fund one or two small lawsuits. Those would have to be restricted to injunctions, I suspect. We just don't have enough funds to go further (unless resident hunters want to start a standalone, segregated, well funded war chest).

    Anyway, at this stage we're looking for all aspects of access to traditional lands, whether it was allowed, partially restricted, totally restricted, or only feared that it would be restricted. Kaska Dena, for example, were reportedly going to do what Tahltan did, but in fact did not (you'll recall an Atlin local jumping on here and making that case last fall). Point being, just in the NW of the province we have 2 approaches that were 180 degrees apart from each other (at least as far as we know).

    We need to figure out just what the access situation was/is.

    This is incredibly important and I really need help form the forum on this. We're 7 months out from sheep, moose and some other seasons season starting. 8 months and just about everything else major opens. We can get organized now or we can wait until the last minute.

    Clearly it's better to get organized now.
    Not sure what info you are actually seeking, but we quit hunting Region 6 due to constant interactions with the Taltan and Kaska,,,our last trip was in 2019,,tried to go into the Cassier, and the Kaska drove in and asked us to leave,,we left, as we figured if we didnt they would burn our camp when we went out for the day,,,went up to just south of the Yukon Border,,same thing happened,,,spun around and went down to Tatogga,,camped at the resort,,hunted the rail grade and encountered the Taltan in there,,just got sick of the constant harassment, so we went to the Koots this past year

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