River Fishing for Coho (Bella Coola)

[Browningmirage]

heres an answer to your opinion.

Talking to a DFO fish manager, they figure on around 95% survival when everything is done properly. Working on our rivers, we can generally get it pretty close to 100% (and its proven by counting the numbers of fish going up and down river). How does this compare with meat fishermen...in a river with say 1500 fish coming up it. If every fish was caught and released once, around 1425 fish would survive to move on. This is when people dont know 100% what they are doing. Now lets say that 100 fisherman are fishing this run for "meat". well damn, right away youve got 100 fish less. Now count in the amount of fish "caught and released long line style", they are still stressed, and therefore you still have a "catch and release" mortality (probably close to 99% survival, but still), even though there is no catch and release going on. Factor into the equation some of the techniques that i have witnessed "meat fishermen" use (from snagging to dragging onto the beach where they can still escape), and your mortality will increase even more. Catch and release is a proven management strategy, that is why on many rivers, it is catch and release only, because "meat fishing" has its downfalls.

I also enjoy bonking fish, but i do know how to handle fish in a way that wont hurt them when it comes to releasing. The same cant be said for all fishermen (both meat and catch and release) but generally the catch and release will be more gentle with the fish that they catch, and return them in a way that will increase survival.

[Krico]

You just reinforced my opinion.

The holier than thou bs attitude I've experienced many times on our rivers is what really bugs me. Some guys fish all day, catching and releasing many fish, with the odd one not surviving (likely less than 95% survival, as everything is not always done properly, as we've all observed.) Then I hear comments about what a savage I am after I bonk the first fish I catch and head home for dinner. I have caught and killed one fish. They have caught and stressed many fish, and more than likely one of the fish they caught will not survive.

No doubt there are some meat fishermen with very poor fish handling techniques. But there are members of the "catch and release only" crowd who need to get off their high horse as well.

BTW I am not an exclusive member to either the "meat fishermen of bc" or the "purists catch and release club of bc." There's room out there for all of us, and I personally hope our rivers do not become the exclusive playground for either side.

[Browningmirage]

hey dude, you asked for figures, i gave you figures.

And if it is such a BS attitude, then why are many rivers in B.C., and throughout the world catch and release only? Could it possibly be that...Oh wow, catch and release fishing offers lower mortality rates???

Why is it that catch and release is used in scientific studies? Could it possibly be that it causes lower mortality rates?

Almost every single catch and release fisherman i have seen (bar one or two) has known and practiced proper techniques. They dont need to get out of the water to land their fish, and stress is much lower. Its a fact. Get over it.

Right now, you are on a high horse, The thought that meat fisherman provide lower mortalities has been contradicted on many occasions. The fact of the matter is that mortalities caused by meat fishermen are generally higher, that is why when an area is a conservation concern, it may be opened only to catch and release.

As for more rivers being closed to anything but catch and release...Why not. For the past 20 years, salmon stocks have been in decline (not to mention anything about the beautiful steelhead). Why not decrease stress on them just that little bit more (until they can provide good fishing numbers for retention)? Myself, i love fishing, i love eating fish, i love everything about fish. Would i give up fishing period if it meant preserving the animals that mean more to me than anything...Of course i would. Fishing in many places now is a sport. Just like hunting, very few people need the meat, but it is nice to have. If for the sake of the fish, certain methods of fishing have to be cancelled (or fishing cancelled altogether), then so be it. Thats the way it has to be.
be a little more open. Its not about who has more rights. Its about the resource. Are you willing to do what it takes to try and bring it to a healthy state?

[Krico]

hey dude, you asked for figures, i gave you figures.

And if it is such a BS attitude, then why are many rivers in B.C., and throughout the world catch and release only? Could it possibly be that...Oh wow, catch and release fishing offers lower mortality rates???

Why is it that catch and release is used in scientific studies? Could it possibly be that it causes lower mortality rates?

Almost every single catch and release fisherman i have seen (bar one or two) has known and practiced proper techniques. They dont need to get out of the water to land their fish, and stress is much lower. Its a fact. Get over it.

Right now, you are on a high horse, The thought that meat fisherman provide lower mortalities has been contradicted on many occasions. The fact of the matter is that mortalities caused by meat fishermen are generally higher, that is why when an area is a conservation concern, it may be opened only to catch and release.

As for more rivers being closed to anything but catch and release...Why not. For the past 20 years, salmon stocks have been in decline (not to mention anything about the beautiful steelhead). Why not decrease stress on them just that little bit more (until they can provide good fishing numbers for retention)? Myself, i love fishing, i love eating fish, i love everything about fish. Would i give up fishing period if it meant preserving the animals that mean more to me than anything...Of course i would. Fishing in many places now is a sport. Just like hunting, very few people need the meat, but it is nice to have. If for the sake of the fish, certain methods of fishing have to be cancelled (or fishing cancelled altogether), then so be it. Thats the way it has to be.
be a little more open. Its not about who has more rights. Its about the resource. Are you willing to do what it takes to try and bring it to a healthy state?

Dude I was not arguing with your numbers-in fact I was happy you posted them, and interested to read them.

The b.s. attitude, if you read my post, is in regards to fishermen who choose to catch and release on rivers where retention is allowed, then look down their nose at those who keep a fish. It was not directed at you. I was making a point that some guys out there seem to think they do ZERO damage by catching and releasing countless fish-the numbers you posted proved otherwise.
Obviously catch and release causes lower mortality rates than catch and keep, nowhere did I post anything to the contrary. Simply that even


As for rivers being catch and release, I also stated earlier in the thread that I was fully in support of those regulations where instated for management purposes. I also support the closure of fisheries where necessary to help fish stocks recover. So to answer your question, yes I am willing to do what it takes.

I'm going to assume the high horse comment was because you thought/read otherwise...Have a nice day.

[Browningmirage]

hey bud

The high horse comment wasnt about because i thought i read differently. Its because of this part here

Then I hear comments about what a savage I am after I bonk the first fish I catch and head home for dinner. I have caught and killed one fish.

unless you are the worlds most amazing fishermen, you arent going to have caught just one fish. Factoring in by catch, etc, you can have just as much impact as you would say a catch and release fisherman has...plus you still bonk the one(or whatever your limit is).

All in all though, i think we agree. As long as conservation is the first concern, i have no worries. This thread was started about fishing ethics. we digressed a bit. any comments on ethics?

[Krico]

One time as I walked down to the run I planned to fish on the Bulkely I passed another fisherman. We spoke briefly, and he informed me he had caught and released over a dozen coho/steelhead already that day. I proceeded to catch "just one," bonk it and head for my hotel. As I passed him again he commented on what a savage I was. This type of thing has happened to me more than once.

Most times I do hook into more than one fish though, hopefully anyways, and I am fully aware of the impact. It's the attitude out there from a small percentage of the fishing community that thinks they somehow have ZERO impact that drives me crazy.

As for the ethics of the video. RD removed it before I had a chance to view it, so I will not comment on it specifically. If a guy plans to retain his catch, I couldn't care less if he chooses to beach the fish, net it, tail it or gaffe it. I do however cringe when I see fish beached in a catch and release only fishery. Some people know no better, and are happy to learn how to properly tail and release fish. Some don't care, and the lack of conservation concern on their part is disgusting IMO.

So yes, I'd say all in all, we do agree.

[LUCKY]

I hope it is just a sour taste.
When I hear comments by like those above it really bothers me. Eliminating meat fishermen puts you one very big step closer to having no fishing at all. I don't see how playing 5-10 or more fish in a day is somehow better, or more sportsmanlike, than catching one, bonking it and going home as the meat fishermen would do. You don't know for sure that the fish you release actually will survive, and will go on to spawn, after the stress of being played out long enough to be gently handled and released. I would imagine one of the fish biologists on the site could offer catch and release mortality stats.

I personally do practice catch and release...sometimes. And I fully support it wherever it's instated for conservation reasons. I also enjoy bonking fish I catch and eating them with my family.

It's a little selfish to suggest the rivers be left only to those with the same practices as you. Reminds me of the bowhunters crying for more bow only seasons, when they were the ones who chose to hunt with a bow...

Not trying to offend anyone either. Just my opinion.

Sorry Krico I think I came across wrong. I am not against meat fisherman. I too am a meat fisherman... in the ocean. I have nothing against it. In fact I am a P/T fishing guide.

I just have an opinion against fishing salmon in the rivers. My comment about changing regs was simply to say that I would like to see less or even no pressure on salmon in the rivers as they are at the end of their life cycle and are there to spawn. (There are many species of fish and shell fish with closures through there spawning season... halibut... prawns...) This is a precious resource that needs to be respected.

I do not fish salmon in the river anymore even to catch and release. So I am not trying to be selfish and can understand your point if I was.
My opinion is tainted by what I have seen on the rivers.

LUCKY