Wildlife Management, BC vs US

[Would Rather Be Fishing]

I hear "the US manages fish and wildlife much better than BC" a LOT. I am not at all suggesting that's not true(!), in fact, from the little I know about the subject I tend to agree, but does anyone have any references that put hard data behind that? I know the libs are continuously defunding the relevant departments, I see what is going on with political decision making rather than science based (grizzly, salmon, now the anti-moose hunting campaign), etc etc

I also recognize it probably doesn't make sense to compare BC the province to US the country.

All that said, does anyone have references to ANY reasonable comparison/study that shows measures taken in the US (state?) solved a certain problem better than here in BC? Or maybe evenn between provinces here in Canada?

[Fella]

Well for one many states actually use money from tags to fund their f&w departments. Plus a certain percentage of money from the purchase of guns and ammo goes to fund f&w country wide...

[303savage]

Well for one many states actually use money from tags to fund their f&w departments.

I thought that was why we have LIC. and tag costs

[jac]

I do much prefer the leh point system vs the lottery.

[Jimbob]

Every State is different, some are much better than others. Simply saying the US manages better than BC doesn't make any sense. You need to compare to individual states.

The grass is always greener on the other side is a wise saying. We have it amazingly well here in BC yet people think its sucks. Moving here to BC I feel like I hit the hunting jackpot yet a bunch of others are complaining. I'm sure it can be tweaked and fixed and we need to be careful where we are headed but to be a BC resident hunter and complain about tag opportunity is absolutely ridiculous. There are few other places with the opportunities that we have.

I can choose to hunt deer, caribou, STONE SHEEP, goats, moose, elk, bear, cougar all GOS this year if I want, that is flat out amazing.

One thing that we are lucky about in BC is that we do not allow other Canadians to come hunt here. Imagine any Canadian could come hunt our GOS areas? We would be over run with hunters. That is how many of the states manage their hunting, non-resident hunters dominate the landscape. It's the system they use and it brings a lot of money and opportunities but it sure drives up hunting pressure. So I'm glad BC doesn't do that.





Also, point creep is a horrible thing in many states. Imagine starting out as a young hunter knowing you will not draw for 25 yrs? The benefit of the lottery system is that you ALWAYS have a chance. I hear a lot of hunters that have a point system say they wish they didn't. Now, I'm sure it has some benefits as well but its not the magic pill and we need to be careful what we wish for.

[two-feet]

Every State is different, some are much better than others. Simply saying the US manages better than BC doesn't make any sense. You need to compare to individual states.

The grass is always greener on the other side is a wise saying. We have it amazingly well here in BC yet people think its sucks. Moving here to BC I feel like I hit the hunting jackpot yet a bunch of others are complaining. I'm sure it can be tweaked and fixed and we need to be careful where we are headed but to be a BC resident hunter and complain about tag opportunity is absolutely ridiculous. There are few other places with the opportunities that we have.

I can choose to hunt deer, caribou, STONE SHEEP, goats, moose, elk, bear, cougar all GOS this year if I want, that is flat out amazing.

One thing that we are lucky about in BC is that we do not allow other Canadians to come hunt here. Imagine any Canadian could come hunt our GOS areas? We would be over run with hunters. That is how many of the states manage their hunting, non-resident hunters dominate the landscape. It's the system they use and it brings a lot of money and opportunities but it sure drives up hunting pressure. So I'm glad BC doesn't do that.





Also, point creep is a horrible thing in many states. Imagine starting out as a young hunter knowing you will not draw for 25 yrs? The benefit of the lottery system is that you ALWAYS have a chance. I hear a lot of hunters that have a point system say they wish they didn't. Now, I'm sure it has some benefits as well but its not the magic pill and we need to be careful what we wish for.

Fair, but to see the loss of animals and opportunity over the last several decades is heart breaking. As a kid we had a 2 month any bull GOS, now it is 3 days. We could assume that if we spend time on the rivers we would do well with salmon, now the rivers do not even open to white folks. I would say that this is a result of mismanagement more than anything else. Yes, we live in the best place on earth but at the rate things are going my kids will not hunt moose or fish salmon, which have both been family traditions for many many generations.

[Jimbob]

I hear ya there. I would rather make comparisons to the past and critique what we are doing than compare with how States manage. The US is so different that comparing to them seems crazy. I'm sure we can learn a few things though.

Seeing moose, caribou and salmon numbers go down is disheartening for sure.

More money always seems like the answer but where does the money come from?

[twoSevenO]

I hear ya there. I would rather make comparisons to the past and critique what we are doing than compare with how States manage. The US is so different that comparing to them seems crazy. I'm sure we can learn a few things though.

Seeing moose, caribou and salmon numbers go down is disheartening for sure.

More money always seems like the answer but where does the money come from?

Federal grants. Canadian governments cannot compare to the amount of money that the US government grants to various states for managing wildlife.

[twoSevenO]

it's been posted here before, in various different ways. Do a search to find it.
But in a nutshell, they simply have way more money. They have a much higher percentage of hunters in their population, which translates to more revenue from sales of licenses and tags. They also have more people overall, so they make a considerably larger amount of money that can be put to studies and protection of animals.

They also have much much better wildlife wintering habitats and zones, and do a great job of protecting them. In BC, they just log the shit out of anything they want. While it is true that they log in Washington and Oregon, some of the better mule deer hunting places like Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Arizona .... they don't really log that much. Take a look at their Google Earth imagery. You will not see clear cuts like you see in the west. This certainly helps.

Predators are also a factor. The lower 48 don't have anywhere near the predators we have in BC. Bears, wolves, cougars ..... they are nowhere near in numbers compared to up here. Again, having more money means they do more studies, means they manage it better than up here.

Last but not least, their hunting is not as liberal as it is here. Their "open" zones are crap. Tons of people. Tons of private land to deal with. Their "good" zones are all on a draw system and can be very difficult to get draws considering the number of hunters they have competing for them.

Having said that, the hunting in the lower 48 seems worse for anything but deer or turkeys, when compared to BC.
They don't have nearly as many moose, goats, bears and of course sheep. I don't think they have an open season on any of those anywhere in the lower 48.

[Eastbranch]

They are better, and it boils down to the Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson Acts, which are taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_ Restoration_Act

Montana is a great example. They have 1/5 the human population of BC, twice as many hunters, a fraction of the "public" land and as much or more hunting and angling opportunity, as well as greater diversity in that opportunity. They also have huge research and harvest survey/creel programs for most of their hunted and fished populations, which allows them to make much better informed management decisions. They have over 700 full time employees and an annual budget north of a hundred million.