moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

[Ride Red]

Ok. So do an LEH on cow/calf and a bounty on wolves. Doing one without the other is ridiculous.

^^^^ This is ridiculous. Cull the wolves, period.

[180grainer]

So, who are the "People" advocating for a moose cull? Says the Province which is misleading. There are people behind this agenda. Who are they? Anyone know? And if we don't know, why don't we know? These people should step forward along with their rationale. I'd like to know who they are.

Will the BCWF make a FOIA request to obtain the research they are relying on, and who is advocating and asking the Province to cull moose in favor of Caribou or culling wolves?

[AllDay]

So, who are the "People" advocating for a moose cull? Says the Province which is misleading. There are people behind this agenda. Who are they? Anyone know? And if we don't know, why don't we know? These people should step forward along with their rationale. I'd like to know who they are.

Here is an objective scientific study showing the results of a wolf only cull vs a wolf cull and moose reduction (and their effect on the caribou). Culling wolves alone did not produce any increase in caribou survival, but culling wolves along with reducing moose population did result in an increase of caribou survival. Reducing moose and culling wolves also resulted in a decrease of wolf density in the caribou habitat.

Science doesn't always tell you what you want to hear, but those are the facts from an exhaustive study on this issue specifically. This isn't some conspiracy. This is the result of biologists studying an issue that is important to them: the extinction of the woodland caribou.

Unfortunately, terrible management practices and the gross extraction of our natural resources has resulted in this situation. This is a problem created by politicians of both political parties (Liberals and NDP). This plan was originally created when the Liberals were in power too, FYI (with a much greater cow/calf harvest than the one currently proposed). The fact that the Liberals are now trying to treat hunters like morons and turn hunters against the "NDP plan to kill baby moose", which is the plan that the Liberal's originally made, is extremely disrespectful to hunters and shows you how spineless these politicians are.

Here is the article, which was published in a respected scientific journal (this means that this article was reviewed by other experts in the field, and the data was validified before being published). Published articles are the gold standard of scientific research. If your article is not published, it is basically just speculation. The article published here, on this specific matter, is the result of high quality research conducted by biologists, and their conclusions have made it through the scrutinization of non-affiliated experts in the specified field.

https://cmu.abmi.ca/wp-content/uploa...ed-caribou.pdf

[gcreek]

Here is an objective scientific study showing the results of a wolf only cull vs a wolf cull and moose reduction (and their effect on the caribou). Culling wolves alone did not produce any increase in caribou survival, but culling wolves along with reducing moose population did result in an increase of caribou survival. Reducing moose and culling wolves also resulted in a decrease of wolf density in the caribou habitat.

Science doesn't always tell you what you want to hear, but those are the facts from an exhaustive study on this issue specifically. This isn't some conspiracy. This is the result of biologists studying an issue that is important to them: the extinction of the woodland caribou.

Unfortunately, terrible management practices and the gross extraction of our natural resources has resulted in this situation. This is a problem created by politicians of both political parties (Liberals and NDP). This plan was originally created when the Liberals were in power too, FYI (with a much greater cow/calf harvest than the one currently proposed). The fact that the Liberals are now trying to treat hunters like morons and turn hunters against the "NDP plan to kill baby moose", which is the plan that the Liberal's originally made, is extremely disrespectful to hunters and shows you how spineless these politicians are.

Here is the article, which was published in a respected scientific journal (this means that this article was reviewed by other experts in the field, and the data was validified before being published). Published articles are the gold standard of scientific research. If your article is not published, it is basically just speculation. The article published here, on this specific matter, is the result of high quality research conducted by biologists, and their conclusions have made it through the scrutinization of non-affiliated experts in the specified field.

https://cmu.abmi.ca/wp-content/uploa...ed-caribou.pdf

This is kind of like tying all four legs up on a frog, making a loud noise in an attempt to make it jump and claiming it has gone deaf.

Those with an agenda can spout off anything. The only thing the moose and caribou have in common in this immediate area is that wolves and grizzlies have decimated both populations. Prove me wrong............

[gcreek]

So, who are the "People" advocating for a moose cull? Says the Province which is misleading. There are people behind this agenda. Who are they? Anyone know? And if we don't know, why don't we know? These people should step forward along with their rationale. I'd like to know who they are.

Will the BCWF make a FOIA request to obtain the research they are relying on, and who is advocating and asking the Province to cull moose in favor of Caribou or culling wolves?

Call me a whack job if you will. Take away the wildlife and you won’t have to hunt, take away the hunt and there is no need for guns, take away your guns and you become a ward of the state. One World Order.........

[AllDay]

This is kind of like tying all four legs up on a frog, making a loud noise in an attempt to make it jump and claiming it has gone deaf.

Those with an agenda can spout off anything. The only thing the moose and caribou have in common in this immediate area is that wolves and grizzlies have decimated both populations. Prove me wrong............

You are right that predators kill prey. But the prey would have more defence mechanisms if the resources weren’t scourged from the earth. I’m not disagreeing with you on the fact that predators are the problem. I just prefer to use science to guide wildlife management. If we don’t use science, we shouldn’t call other groups emotional when they say they don’t want any predators killed because of reasons “x,y, and z”. Is reducing a percentage of an increasing moose population (in a selective area) not worth the risk to attempt to save the caribou? A few years ago everyone was yelling about the grizzly bear hunt ban being an emotional / social response and that it was not based on science. Saying that reducing a small number of moose in conjunction with reducing wolves does not work is an emotional and unscientific claim because the experts in these matters have determined that that has been successful. If people want to use the same methods (appealing to emotion by calling 300 lb calves babies, calling hunters that harvest these animals unconscionable, spreading misinformation, etc.) than go ahead, but that is not what I am going to do. This may prove to be a fruitless venture for the caribou, but the science supports the decision right now to harvest moose calf/cows.

[Ride Red]

You are right that predators kill prey. But the prey would have more defence mechanisms if the resources weren’t scourged from the earth. I’m not disagreeing with you on the fact that predators are the problem. I just prefer to use science to guide wildlife management. If we don’t use science, we shouldn’t call other groups emotional when they say they don’t want any predators killed because of reasons “x,y, and z”. Is reducing a percentage of an increasing moose population (in a selective area) not worth the risk to attempt to save the caribou? A few years ago everyone was yelling about the grizzly bear hunt ban being an emotional / social response and that it was not based on science. Saying that reducing a small number of moose in conjunction with reducing wolves does not work is an emotional and unscientific claim because the experts in these matters have determined that that has been successful. If people want to use the same methods (appealing to emotion by calling 300 lb calves babies, calling hunters that harvest these animals unconscionable, spreading misinformation, etc.) than go ahead, but that is not what I am going to do. This may prove to be a fruitless venture for the caribou, but the science supports the decision right now to harvest moose calf/cows.

How about we do what has worked in the past first; cull the wolves. Then and only then should we be looking at alternative measures to slow moose population growth “if it is deemed a problem”. Moose and caribou have cohabitated for eons without issue, why the big fuss now? Cause the fuzzy puppy lovers are pushing so hard on our inept provincial government and they’re afraid to lose votes.

Allday, I’ve asked before without an answer, so I’ll ask again. How many years have you spent with boots on the ground in BC? How many areas have you hunted/hiked that you can recall changes personally? Ie: game numbers, predator numbers, environmental changes.

[gcreek]

You are right that predators kill prey. But the prey would have more defence mechanisms if the resources weren’t scourged from the earth. I’m not disagreeing with you on the fact that predators are the problem. I just prefer to use science to guide wildlife management. If we don’t use science, we shouldn’t call other groups emotional when they say they don’t want any predators killed because of reasons “x,y, and z”. Is reducing a percentage of an increasing moose population (in a selective area) not worth the risk to attempt to save the caribou? A few years ago everyone was yelling about the grizzly bear hunt ban being an emotional / social response and that it was not based on science. Saying that reducing a small number of moose in conjunction with reducing wolves does not work is an emotional and unscientific claim because the experts in these matters have determined that that has been successful. If people want to use the same methods (appealing to emotion by calling 300 lb calves babies, calling hunters that harvest these animals unconscionable, spreading misinformation, etc.) than go ahead, but that is not what I am going to do. This may prove to be a fruitless venture for the caribou, but the science supports the decision right now to harvest moose calf/cows.

Would science say if your favourite grocery store closed that you would move or just starve to death or shop elsewhere?

[180grainer]

Here is the article, which was published in a respected scientific journal (this means that this article was reviewed by other experts in the field, and the data was validified before being published). Published articles are the gold standard of scientific research. If your article is not published, it is basically just speculation. The article published here, on this specific matter, is the result of high quality research conducted by biologists, and their conclusions have made it through the scrutinization of non-affiliated experts in the specified field.

https://cmu.abmi.ca/wp-content/uploa...ed-caribou.pdf

So I hear what you're saying. Unfortunately, this is one study. It was submitted and then printed within 3 months. That's rigorous peer review is it? It's far from the definitive word on the matter. Seems counter intuitive and, at the moment, I'll go with my gut, and look at this as just another step in the slow burn down in the ability of British Colombians.........Canadians, to hunt. This didn't start today. It started in earnest about 3 decades ago. Less and less money for wildlife. What these people are trying to do is a granola solution. They don't want a hardcore wolf cull. You either, get in there and helicopter shoot wolf packs, or you open it up to a bounty and allow hunters to flip the bill. Leave the moose alone. Moose Lives Matter

[338win mag]

So I hear what you're saying. Unfortunately, this is one study. It was submitted and then printed within 3 months. That's rigorous peer review is it? It's far from the definitive word on the matter. Seems counter intuitive and, at the moment, I'll go with my gut, and look at this as just another step in the slow burn down in the ability of British Colombians.........Canadians, to hunt. This didn't start today. It started in earnest about 3 decades ago. Less and less money for wildlife. What these people are trying to do is a granola solution. They don't want a hardcore wolf cull. You either, get in there and helicopter shoot wolf packs, or you open it up to a bounty and allow hunters to flip the bill. Leave the moose alone. Moose Lives Matter

Yup........