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Thread: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

  1. #101
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    Dec 2007
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    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by gcreek View Post
    Let's add a few organizations that profit from those who are gullible enough to believe their bs.
    Absolutely , the grant monies and salaries to study , consult , study etc is astounding and that's on top of the government bio's salaries

  2. #102
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    Apr 2011
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    813

    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    You do know that the way LEH and number of authorizations are supposed to work is by adjusting the number of authorizations in subsequent years to match the harvest objectives. So, if too many of animal "X" are taken through LEH, then the number of authorizations should go down and visa versa, if too few animals are harvested the number of authorizations are supposed to increase. If LEH system is run accordingly as it should be, then "burning" your authorization instead of filling it could contribute to an increase in authorizations the following year if the harvest objective stays the same.

    Anti-hunting groups have been accused of having their members get a FWID and applying for authorizations to save animals and so have guide outfitters been accused by having family members apply for say a sheep authorization and then not go. Not only is this flawed logic in terms of the way LEH and #'s of authorizations work, but the data shows that if these attempts are happening, it's not significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
    There is an informal program underway in Alberta termed the Save A Doe campaign.
    In essence, the government issues far more doe tags (mulies in this case) than could ever be considered sustainable. All part and parcel of their intentional destruction of the southern mulie herds in the name of CWD.
    Locals apply for the the tags when on LEH. Or buy them when they are cross-counter tags.
    Then burn them.

    I believe this is the route we should go in this case here.
    I did apply, and I will burn them if I get "Lucky"...

    Save a moose calf / cow campaign anyone?

    Nog

  3. #103
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    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by 2chodi View Post
    You do know that the way LEH and number of authorizations are supposed to work is by adjusting the number of authorizations in subsequent years to match the harvest objectives. So, if too many of animal "X" are taken through LEH, then the number of authorizations should go down and visa versa, if too few animals are harvested the number of authorizations are supposed to increase. If LEH system is run accordingly as it should be, then "burning" your authorization instead of filling it could contribute to an increase in authorizations the following year if the harvest objective stays the same.

    Anti-hunting groups have been accused of having their members get a FWID and applying for authorizations to save animals and so have guide outfitters been accused by having family members apply for say a sheep authorization and then not go. Not only is this flawed logic in terms of the way LEH and #'s of authorizations work, but the data shows that if these attempts are happening, it's not significant.
    That's the same ideology that's part of the problem ..... gee only 22% success rate , we should sell more LEH tags ..... gee low bull/cow ratios....must lower cow # .... gee now low cow/bull ratio= more bull tags . Now gee maybe if we lower the moose # the wolves won't eat caribou . I don't believe our wildlife managers can be that naive or stupid ? Just following orders .... motive ? more pay , job security ?

  4. #104
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    Feb 2009
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    8,515

    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    My only concerns, isn't the 9 more Moose etc harvested, even though removing cows means even less moose around the next season (kind of obvious)
    My concern is, that there are new LEH allocations being put out there, not because we have "too many moose" in an area, BUT,
    rather it is being used to try to keep "wolf populations down".

    That is my concern.
    I can see it working, but only if you are trying to save say Cariboo, in area, where you do BOTH, full wolf cull and then to avoid new wolves "moving in", remove some of the prey items,
    like moose.
    (that makes logical sense)

    BUT, only if wolves are being removed!
    In R3, where I see some new allocations, I don't feel the moose are in that great a shape, and yet here are some new allocations.
    What is in great shape and growing are the wolf #'s.

    So, I am concerned that to try to bend the curve on wolf #'s, that they are using this "new approach" to somehow try and reduce wolves.
    When, the easiest, most effective way is to go out and shoot them by heli, targeting only the wolves, and taking the whole pack out.
    And if it has to do with the Cariboo, take out a whole ton more, for hundred of square miles surrounding the area to protect the Boo.
    We "know that works"!!!

    This to me, is all about being too much of a pussy by the ministry and government caving into antis and not having a proper wolf cull.
    So, hey, lets kill of moose, and all looks good as hunters do the killing, but then eventually the wolves take hold, and drop the moose #'s drastically.
    AND, in the end, the hunt gets shut down, an "hunters get the blame" for killing all the moose.

    WIN-WIN for the NDP, the antis are happy about no wolf cull, the anti's get to say "hey, look at the hunting community and their blood thirty, shoot up the valley, hunting mentality",
    the season gets shut down, and the FN get to hunt unencumbered!

    GREAT plan, if you are ndp, anti or FN.
    IMO.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    197

    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    From what I understand, their plan is to continue a rather aggressive wolf cull in the specified areas where they are also asking hunters to harvest moose. Scientific studies have shown that by reducing moose population it will reduce the wolf density in the target areas. They have done both wolf culling along and wolf culling with moose reduction. The moose reduction in conjunction with the wolf culling is the only management system that has resulted in an increase in caribou survival. If you don’t reduce the density of moose the wolves just return. If you remove their main food source they don’t come back in the same numbers. This is not based on my thoughts or experience. This is based on high quality science

  6. #106
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    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Good post Allday, some will see the logic

    Buglemin, do you know what has being going on in the way of wolf reductions in those caribou areas? Any idea of the effort and success and numbers that have been taken out over the last several years?
    Never say whoa in the middle of a mud hole

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    4,594

    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDay View Post
    From what I understand, their plan is to continue a rather aggressive wolf cull in the specified areas where they are also asking hunters to harvest moose. Scientific studies have shown that by reducing moose population it will reduce the wolf density in the target areas. They have done both wolf culling along and wolf culling with moose reduction. The moose reduction in conjunction with the wolf culling is the only management system that has resulted in an increase in caribou survival. If you don’t reduce the density of moose the wolves just return. If you remove their main food source they don’t come back in the same numbers. This is not based on my thoughts or experience. This is based on high quality science
    With a prolific wolf population like BC has, it will only be a short matter of time before they reproduce to the surrounding food sources or transplant from different areas as they have been doing. Nocking off a few more cow/calf moose is strictly political ploy and squat to do with science. Government hired staff are in fear of job loss if they speak against the powers in charge. Again, this has been tried before and failed; how many times do we bang our heads against the wall to realize it feels good when we stop. Not sure what anti club you belong to, but I’m calling bullshit that you’re a hunter.
    If you can pack it in, You can pack it out !!!

    UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL !!!


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    " The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but building on the new"
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  8. #108
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannybuoy View Post
    Absolutely , the grant monies and salaries to study , consult , study etc is astounding and that's on top of the government bio's salaries
    Now theres something to THINKABOUT ! RJ

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    6,437

    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by HighCountryBC View Post
    This is not a "moose cull". Far from it.

    Jesse has been open about sharing facts, not hearsay. It's disappointing to see all of the misinformation and outright lies from the usual suspects talking in circles and getting the uninformed stirred up. There is a small increase in tags in one area. An area that has seen the moose population increase 55% in 2 years and has heavy wolf reduction going on.

    Hunters cried for science-based management when the grizzly hunt was shut down. Can't cherry pick when science doesn't align with your socially-motivated stance.
    do you know if the population of moose is anywhere near carrying capacity....a 55% increase if we were only at 10% of carrying capacity is nothing more than a good start at recovery not justification for a population reduction/increased harvest....

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    1,794

    Re: moose cull to save caribou?? wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Red View Post
    With a prolific wolf population like BC has, it will only be a short matter of time before they reproduce to the surrounding food sources or transplant from different areas as they have been doing. Nocking off a few more cow/calf moose is strictly political ploy and squat to do with science. Government hired staff are in fear of job loss if they speak against the powers in charge. Again, this has been tried before and failed; how many times do we bang our heads against the wall to realize it feels good when we stop. Not sure what anti club you belong to, but I’m calling bullshit that you’re a hunter.
    I concur with you.

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