Logging damage..grrr

[tyreguy]

Thanks for this comment Pauly as this is the truth. Seeing something is wrong and doing something about it has a way better impact on the problem rather than getting behind the keyboard and spouting off.
I like (in a positive way) the way that Srupp's comments have evolved into initially a complaint on a hunting website to actually contacting the timber company regarding some questionable forest practices and by contacting the lease holder he was educated and also educated them to the concerns in this area which has a more productive outcome rather than venting on a website. I appreciate his efforts and input and hope that he continues to contribute. My reply to the initial post was the irony of living in a community supported by forestry yet complaining about logging when combined we all hunt cut blocks, travel on logging roads and in this area the economy is driven by the resource industry.
This comment not directed at anyone in particular but just a general observation, but too often this hunting site has become a Complaints Dept for whatever is the complaint of the week and it provides minimal content to the site that turns out to be enjoyable or entertaining. Seldom are there hunting experiences, which are now replaced with pissing matches, complaining about everything under the sun and testosterone filled trolls (except for Jassmine!!). Hopefully we can consider what we are contributing actually contributes something of value rather than just posting something or commenting to fire people up.

Sorry your favorite spot has changed, but a new adventure comes now as you explore new areas and who knows maybe you'll find a new spot just as good.......... but you'll have fun "hunting" for new areas. The animals will adapt and so will the hunter.

I was having a look at the interior mule deer study and one of the recommendations was to plant forge species where they belong in future logging areas.. problem is everything is already logged and I doubt their going back to reclaim every block in the province. Every year I buy a big bag of clover and scatter it along the roads where I hunt it really boosts the grouse numbers. I also grow a few seedlings every year and plant them in my hunting spot. Last fall I planted a few hundred white acorn in the ground at one of my whitetail spots. Lots the individual can do on our own. Plant sunflowers out their for the birds it all helps. Lots of complainers out there including myself so why not do something about it. Two or three trees a year for every hunter and voila. Ps apple trees are tough and grow great in open damp areas

[Pauly]

Knowingly spreading an invasive species isn't a good idea.

You know what’s invasive.. logging companies and government. At least I’m trying in my own way also nothing I plant is invasive they are natives of Canada and are beneficial to our local wild life. Are you seeding clover or planting poplar , diamond willow or red osiers? I highly doubt it, so please don’t lecture me. Elk are transplanted all over along with sheep and turkey are they invasive? Elk were in the loops 100 years ago and are gone now if they re introduced them does that constitute an invasive species then?

[Bugle M In]

Yup, a lot of changes to the landscape, since the mid to late 80's.
And then ramped up even further by the beetle by the late 90's and definitely early 2000's.

I dont recognize much of anything anymore.
The plateau above Cache Creek/Kammy and north thru Hihium/Loon and further, is barren.
Used to be such a grat place to hunt for some decent MD and chances to take a 200+ buck, or at least know they were out there.
Now, wolf tracks, small bucks more times then not, and the Moose get hammered pretty easily in all that open terrain.

We can blame a lot of issues to the decreasing wildlife pops, but, if you coincide the amount of logging with the decline, i think they go hand in hand
pretty well.
It's not the only issue, and people need to work, but jesus, the results of what has happened is beyond comprehension.

When you see a landscape, and 50% of the trees are gone, for as far as the eye can see, that cant be good.
And, i have found, that yes, some logging made for excellent "honeyholes", mostly because they logged an area that wasnt a "bedding area" and a great
location for "feed".
BUT, then they log the "bedding" area, and voila, place destroyed.

And, i found, where i hunt elk anyways, for many years now, that the logging took place more times then not, "in the bedding areas"!!!
I mean it!, anywhere were the elk would "lay for the day", got logged.
All the crap areas, that would have made for "decent feed" beside the bedding areas, lays untouched.

Somehow, the topography that is great or useful for logging, tends to be the same areas were they like to bed.
I suppose that is the problem, no studies done in a given area to determine what species use what areas for what purposes.
The only thing i know of, is that they only concern themselves with the "migration routes".
And even then, they still logged the hell out of it where i hunt MD.

Jobs, money and wildlife, dont work together, thats for sure.

[Pauly]

I’ve lost some incredible moose and deer bedding areas .. secret honey holes that were a guarantee!! My heart just sank when I went in at the beginning of a season and walked into that! Felt like stollen memories, quite upsetting. Adapt, improvise, or die I suppose. Really deer hunting has become a micro area hunt now. Habitat is so fragmented that deer really are limited to small isolated patches of quality shelter and feed, I was out the other day to one of my hot spots and they have logged completely one of the best mule deer travel corridors I have ever encountered.. my dad was with me and just went off the deep end boy was he pissed so was I. It’s really quite depressing am I the only one that feels like this? It’s hard to even have a wilderness experience any more I can barely remember what it was like to hunt through a mature pine forest with 100 yard visibility or expansive fir ridges used to be able to get lost all day it was awesome. I wish logging would just die . I was smart enough to get out 20 years ago I saw the industry decline on the way. Some of my buddies kept on and are now out of work and struggling. Such as it is.

[wildcatter]

Pretty well everything have been said in these posts, all I can add is logging practices are awful and need to change.
A steady destruction of wildlife habitat, decrease of forests, some of the huge areas that been clear cut can be seen from space.
Forest companies could learn a thing or two if they take a closer look at European forest practices.
Given, there is no true wilderness left in Europe because of deforestation in the distant past and the spread of population.
However forest management has been changed and they actually made a lot of improvements, whereas things here going the opposite way.

[srupp]

Hmmm logging has the choice of methods..sustainable. .and consider other land users. .now several groups involved looking over this situation.from government...to forester who hired the contractors.
I'm going back tomorrow to do some GPS work on specific issues / locations..no one said tough luck..all will have a look the situation on what works for everyone.
I will check out 3 areas around there to see flooding, snow levels..hell"..even forest fires..plus access without being too near logging..forester said logging would resume May 18 the. .I hope to be home with a couple bears before that...

My intention was never bitching and running..I had some very helpful points from great guys on this site...and always planned on going up the ladder..not to stop logging but knowing what the rules are for logging practices..and why block ATV active trails..etc

I want to be associated with constructive criticism and suggested improvements..not just complain on a forum.to better the lot of hunters, wildlife and the environment. I have done that.
I will not mention folks here who have been helpful, kind who have employment that gave them methods to help.
5 separate individuals who share..SO wildlife, hunters, outdoor users get the benefit of their knowledge....
To those individuals THANK YOU
Cheers
Srupp

[Bugle M In]

I dont begrudge the folks in Forestry.
I accept that logging is a way for people to work, and feed their families, and yes, trees are "renewable resource", just like our hunting, so lets not be
hypocrites, and besides, we get to enjoy many of the roads they make for us to gain access. (we just dont need "all of them").

We need Forestry, but i wonder if it would be possible to change it's reason for being (thinking out loud here, without deep thought).
I wonder if it could be done in a "not for profit" way.
Meaning, yes, we pay the folks a decent wage to harvest the trees, and all the things that come with it, replanting etc.
The lumber sold is to pay for the expenses required to get it to "retail" etc.
Some money for retooling etc as well.
But after that, not enough for some "big wig" to sit on a 150ft yacht and "call the shots".
Maybe take it back from those big corporations, reel it back to every community out there, small towns, to run it????

Maybe those profits made now, would be the money that would be used to "plant the right stuff, the right way", not just stuff as many of a certain species
of tree, in a cut, that maximizes "future returns".

In other words, the price of lumber wouldn't change (granted, dictated by the world markets etc), but by sinking the profits back into the land just
harvested, and by removing the "big shots" involved, that maybe we could change the outcome of logging???

Again, just wondering if that would be possible? if that would make a difference.
But the way it is going, the forestry companies are eating themselves out of house and home, and the wildlife suffers along with it.
No sustainable by any means the way this current format is, imo.

[wildcatter]

Nice idea, but not likely to happen, there are way to many rich and powerful people in the industry (and the government) to oppose.

[KodiakHntr]

You know what’s invasive.. logging companies and government. At least I’m trying in my own way also nothing I plant is invasive they are natives of Canada and are beneficial to our local wild life. Are you seeding clover or planting poplar , diamond willow or red osiers? I highly doubt it, so please don’t lecture me. Elk are transplanted all over along with sheep and turkey are they invasive? Elk were in the loops 100 years ago and are gone now if they re introduced them does that constitute an invasive species then?

Get pissy all you want, but from what you have already posted you have confirmed what I had already suspected about you. A very significant portion of what you have posted in this thread could be construed as misinformation at best, and outright bullshit at worst.

Unless you can guarantee that the what you are planting is weed free and naturally occurring on the landscape where you are spreading seed then you are spreading invasive species. Period.

Major licencees have had to change grass seed mixtures over the last couple of years due to this, going from "forestry seed" to specifics for each area based on concerns from FN bands and the spread of plant and grass species that are native to those areas and that don't choke out plants that ARE native.

And yes, over the course of my career I HAVE planted red osier dogwood, and willows, and aspen shoots for a multitude of reasons.

[Pauly]

Get pissy all you want, but from what you have already posted you have confirmed what I had already suspected about you. A very significant portion of what you have posted in this thread could be construed as misinformation at best, and outright bullshit at worst.

Unless you can guarantee that the what you are planting is weed free and naturally occurring on the landscape where you are spreading seed then you are spreading invasive species. Period.

Major licencees have had to change grass seed mixtures over the last couple of years due to this, going from "forestry seed" to specifics for each area based on concerns from FN bands and the spread of plant and grass species that are native to those areas and that don't choke out plants that ARE native.

And yes, over the course of my career I HAVE planted red osier dogwood, and willows, and aspen shoots for a multitude of reasons.

well can’t make everyone happy and theirs always a critic isn’t their and I couldn’t care what others think it’s not a popularity contest lol I am well educated R.P.F and am familiar with the B.S and politics of it all. I can guarantee you I’m causing no damage to anything unlike our wonderful government rape the land policy. Any how some hunters long after I’m gone will be thanking me.