Letter Suggestions re: BC Hunting Restriction Proposals

[IronNoggin]

Hi Folks,

Here is something to ponder. This is a draft of the Bowhunters response which they are circulating to their members for comment / review / submission, have shared with me, and allowed me to go public with it. From this, it is pretty easy to see what transpired, and just who was directing the flow...

"To whom it may concern,

Upon reviewing the 2020 hunting regulation change proposals, I am strongly opposed and deeply concerned with the proposal to eliminate a low impact resident bow hunting opportunity as outlined in the South Skeena Bow Only Moose Seasons (2020-06-06) proposal. It is very upsetting, as a resident hunter, that this government is even considering eliminated and "transitioned" a long standing low impact archery season to a LEH season as proposed by the local commercial guide outfitting association. Bowhunting, by its very limitations, is a widely used wildlife management tool that maximizes hunter opportunity while minimizing impacts to wildlife. Bowhunting will always equate to the maximum amount of hunters buying licenses and tags and pursuing wild game with the smallest impact on wildlife populations. I am strongly opposed to this proposal for many reasons, some of which are listed below.

The proposal is in direct conflict with the Provinces "Resident Priority" model:

The moose General Open Season in Skeena South was cut from 7 days to 3 days in 2018 to address a possible over harvest in some MU's - this should realize an immediate ~50% reduction in bull harvest. The impacts of this very dramatic reduction in resident hunter opportunity (and allocation) has not yet been tabulated or realized. Local Guide Outfitter allocations were not reduced in-step through this process!

Although not listed anywhere in this proposal - this reduction to resident hunter opportunity was proposed and submitted by competing interest groups (commercial guide outfitters association and one R&G club), and not government wildlife biologists. This proposal is based on anecdotal information and absolutely no harvest data as it is clear the biologists have no harvest data to support this proposal. Proposal originated from competing commercial pressures with no supporting data and was not discussed during the 2019 Skeena Wildlife Hunter Advisory Committee (SWHAC) regulation change proposal meetings.

The commercial allocation of the Annual Allowable Harvest (AAH) should have been adjusted prior to the significant reduction of the 7 day general open season in 2018 and it is not addressed or justified as a part of this proposal because there is no data to support it.

This proposal is based on anecdotal information and is being pushed as a data acquisition/management problem not a moose harvest or population problem:

It is clear from this proposal that the Biologists have very poor harvest data related to Skeena South Moose harvest and cannot reliably determine when and how moose are harvested. This is an easy and attainable fix and the fact it is a supporting rationale to eliminate a low impact resident hunter opportunity is exceptionally concerning.


To further obvious lack of harvest data, a proposal is also in place with broad stakeholder support that will address this shortfall in detailed harvest data (Skeena South Compulsory Inspection for Moose 2020-06-07). The harvest breakdown (date, method of harvest, unit, effort, etc.) will be clear once this CI program is in place and wildlife managers could make informed decisions in short order, not poor decisions to further reduce resident hunter opportunity. Would it not be preferable to simply wait and have defensible harvest data to support a fair and defensible statutory decision making process before eliminating more resident hunter opportunity?


Within the rationale of this single proposal the following language is used "this assumption", "will likely result in", "has likely lead to", "given the uncertainty", "the conservative approach". This language must call to question the weakness and validity of this proposed reduction of more local resident hunter opportunity. As a BC Resident Hunter this level of uncertainty used as rationale to eliminate my opportunity is simply unacceptable.



Also, within the rationale of this proposal it is clear a perceived increased use of newer more high tech crossbows is being used as a reason for a perceived increase in harvest (all anecdotal information), but within this same regulation change cycle there is also a proposal to limit the technology that can be used on any bow during bow only seasons (Scopes on Bows During Bow Only Seasons 2020-0-05). If limiting the technology that can be used during Bow Only Seasons is a concern and is currently proposed province wide how can that be the bulk of the supporting rationale for this reduction to resident hunter opportunity?

In closing, it is alarming that a proposal such as this has even made it to final review and comments through this process (regulation change process review highly recommended). The simple fact that the complete rationale of concerns for this proposal is also being proposed to be addressed in this very regulation change cycle (lack of detailed harvest data and high tech archery equipment) supports the statutory decision makers quick rejection of this application. Contrary to the closing remarks of this proposal, any open season hunting opportunity is preferred to a restrictive hunter management tool such as LEH. It is disingenuous to state that a transition from an open opportunity (bow only) to a limited one is maintaining this unique opportunity! Government should not be using a lack of management tools/data to justify limiting more resident hunter opportunities, particularly in light of recent, long overdue, budget uplifts within the Wildlife Branch. On the wings of many recent resident hunter opportunity reductions across the province, if approved this proposal will erode public confidence and trust in the government’s ability to effectively and fairly manage British Columbia's amazing natural resources (Objective 1.1 of the 2018/19 - 2020/21 FLNRORD Service Plan).


Sincerely,

Resident (Bow) Hunter"
.................................................. .....................................

I have learned a lot regarding this proposal, and the processes involved in creating them, since I first wrote the provincial government in this regard. As such, I am writing them again very shortly. When I finish that I will post it here for others to formulate ideas from.


Cheers,
Nog

[Piperdown]

Great post Matt, are you going to send this directly to Horgans email and the minster in charge. Lets see what BV says about this as he says that the guide outfitters are wanting to work with the resident hunters, complete bullshit.

[IronNoggin]

Great post Matt, are you going to send this directly to Horgans email and the minster in charge.

That will be coming from the Resident Bowhunters my Friend. I posted it such that folks here can see where this crap originated from, and to collect ammo for writing their own letters against this foolishness.

I am currently working on another draft letter to Horgan et al, and will post that here once my legal beagle has vetted it. Soon methinks...

Cheers,
Nog

[bearvalley]

Great post Matt, are you going to send this directly to Horgans email and the minster in charge. Lets see what BV says about this as he says that the guide outfitters are wanting to work with the resident hunters, complete bullshit.

Out of the loop on this proposal Piper but it seems by what Matt posted it was brought forth by South Skeena GO’s and a local R & G club......maybe they’ve got a bit more hand on feel for what’s going on with local moose than someone that lives on the “Rock”.
It’ll be interesting what CI reporting shows.

[Piperdown]

Out of the loop on this proposal Piper but it seems by what Matt posted it was brought forth by South Skeena GO’s and a local R & G club......maybe they’ve got a bit more hand on feel for what’s going on with local moose than someone that lives on the “Rock”.
It’ll be interesting what CI reporting shows.

Well coming from the Guide know it all, maybe i will see you up at the cabin next week when i am pred hunting there, i spend at least 4 months a year in the bush up there, have a dozen cams 12 months a year there, how much time you spend there. You are probably to busy making money guiding as i hear it is tough to do ranching for you As for GO's knowing it all, maybe ask you buddy Stewart when he got the area in 7 a few years back why the first thing he did was apply for more moose tags, if he had a clue about what was going on there he would have know that area was on of the first to tank for moose, but nooooo he wanted more which the tax payers had to pony while the govt spent the money to address his request, shit and at the same time he was selling his moose tags to Dales kids for in 5-13 for $150 because he couldn't fill them, you guys related??

[bearvalley]

Well coming from the Guide know it all, maybe i will see you up at the cabin next week when i am pred hunting there, i spend at least 4 months a year in the bush up there, have a dozen cams 12 months a year there, how much time you spend there. You are probably to busy making money guiding as i hear it is tough to do ranching for you As for GO's knowing it all, maybe ask you buddy Stewart when he got the area in 7 a few years back why the first thing he did was apply for more moose tags, if he had a clue about what was going on there he would have know that area was on of the first to tank for moose, but nooooo he wanted more which the tax payers had to pony while the govt spent the money to address his request, shit and at the same time he was selling his moose tags to Dales kids for in 5-13 for $150 because he couldn't fill them, you guys related??

You & I seem to have a major personal problem considering we’ve never met.

In case your comprehensive skills missed it, I stated that I was out of the loop on this proposal and believe that the regulation change was brought forth by the GO and a R & G club.

Why don’t you fill us in more?
Hows the moose population there’s?
Are you seeing lots on your game cams?

Hope your predator huntings a success....I wouldn’t want to see a guy freezing his ass off in -30 temps for nothing.
Maybe post up your wolf kills so we can see?

But then again, at -30 the transition from the “Rock” to the interior might be a bit rough and the cabin walls more comforting.

By the way Stewart and I aren’t real buddies....but good on him if he can find someone dumb enough to pay $150 for a moose tag....from all the crying out that way it’s like getting paid for a ghost.
But then Dales kids probably won’t have a problem digging up a bull....hell family members have eaten moose out there for years....kind of the shits that modern times makes them buy tags tho......go figure.

Hey Piper, I’m probably even worse than Stewart....I gave away a moose tag, license, guide, transportation all included.....why.....to go towards funding 1campfire.
Wasn’t an unfilled tag...in fact the hunt takes place in 2021...this year is booked to the nuts.
Maybe I should have just got my 150 bucks?
i could have bought some beer, turned on the hockey game, fired up the iPad and gone into HBC mode!

Anyhow....back to the hunt....
The moose hunt sells next week at WSF’s auction....all proceeds 100% donated....maybe you’d like to match its value dollar for dollar?
That could be the Piperdown contribution to “resident hunter heritage”.
A real investment instead of social media mouthpiece BS.

If you want to keep up on the rancher slags based on “bullshit” you say you’ve heard from Dale....that can go 2 ways.
Maybe run it by him and see if that can of worms wants to get opened.

[Piperdown]

You & I seem to have a major personal problem considering we’ve never met.

In case your comprehensive skills missed it, I stated that I was out of the loop on this proposal and believe that the regulation change was brought forth by the GO and a R & G club.

Why don’t you fill us in more?
Hows the moose population there’s?
Are you seeing lots on your game cams?
Moose population at the cabin is very stable this year was the best i have seen in years, good cow calf recruitment. Seeing lots of game on cams, bear numbers are through the roof, getting more grizz on the cams and the whitetail population is growing fast, which i think is hurting the mulies

Hope your predator huntings a success....I wouldn’t want to see a guy freezing his ass off in -30 temps for nothing.
Maybe post up your wolf kills so we can see
Since targeting preds about 5 years ago, only 1 wolf down, 12 yotes and now at the cabin anyone who wants to hunt there must buy bear tags and they have harvested 8 in the last 4 years. I must admit the wolves are a hard animal to hunt, i could just stay home save some cash, hell even go on a holiday somewhere hot but i have chosen to go try my best to do my part, would really like to see how many you have gotten this year as you are there every day

But then again, at -30 the transition from the “Rock” to the interior might be a bit rough and the cabin walls more comforting.
I have thick skin in case you haven't noticed
By the way Stewart and I aren’t real buddies....but good on him if he can find someone dumb enough to pay $150 for a moose tag....from all the crying out that way it’s like getting paid for a ghost.
But then Dales kids probably won’t have a problem digging up a bull....hell family members have eaten moose out there for years....kind of the shits that modern times makes them buy tags tho......go figure.Well Dales area still holds a healthy population of moose, buddies had 2 group draws 2 years ago, 4 bulls harvested and many more seen. As for buying tags for $150 bucks that's a steel when you don't get any draws, what is not good is an outfitter selling his tags for dirt cheap because he can't get people to use his service, might be time to close up shop.
Hey Piper, I’m probably even worse than Stewart....I gave away a moose tag, license, guide, transportation all included.....why.....to go towards funding 1campfire.
Wasn’t an unfilled tag...in fact the hunt takes place in 2021...this year is booked to the nuts.
Good on you, glad you will be raping and pilaging a resorce that is in such decline
Maybe I should have just got my 150 bucks?
i could have bought some beer, turned on the hockey game, fired up the iPad and gone into HBC mode!
Not a bad idea hope you don't cheer for the Canucks

Anyhow....back to the hunt....
The moose hunt sells next week at WSF’s auction....all proceeds 100% donated....maybe you’d like to match its value dollar for dollar?
That could be the Piperdown contribution to “resident hunter heritage”.
A real investment instead of social media mouthpiece BS.
Well considering that my trips to the cabin cost me at least 10 grand a year to the local economies, plus the purchase of the 80 acres and the cost of the cabin, i think i do donate a lot to the industry
If you want to keep up on the rancher slags based on “bullshit” you say you’ve heard from Dale....that can go 2 ways.
Maybe run it by him and see if that can of worms wants to get opened.

For what i have seen when Dale was running cattle he ran a top notch outfit, top dollar for his cattle and he wasn't the only one to talk about ranching(bullshit) skills, said your father was an excellent rancher.
Any other questions fell free to ask

[Onesock]

Who are the resident bowhunters? Is this an organization other than the UBBC?

[IronNoggin]

Members thereof, but also includes bow hunters who are not part of that Assc from what I can tell.

[rageous]

If true, that’s a undeniable complete embarrassment.