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Thread: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

  1. #151
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    Thumbs down Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    ... Thing is, XBow is not a "short range weapon" any longer.
    The FPS rates make this weapon just as effective as a 30/30 (maybe even better??).
    Total horseshit again.
    For many it seems basing their perceptions of the effective range of modern crossbows can be verified by the outlandish claims of one manufacturer, who with the employ of a professional shooter, manages to put three in the x ring at 100 yards.

    Are all bows capable of that? Certainly not.
    Are all shooters capable of that? Certainly not.
    Are experienced compound bow shooters capable of the same? Most certainly.

    Stop using this as your excuse.
    There is extremely little difference between the effective ranges of crossbows and modern compound bows in the right hands.
    Period.

    As for these CO's, guides, or even fools like TD above suggesting huge increases in harvest levels due to crossbow use: Show me the study, and show me the results thereof. Oh, you can't, because that simply does not exit. So instead, we'll go with the "I think that..." routine to manage hunting restrictions? Huh? And then we will go so far as to make such restrictions province wide based on SUPPOSITION coming from one single region? WTF??

    Ludicrous!

    I hope I don't have to actually launch a legal challenge to this bullshit, but mark my words if they impose it, I most certainly will...

    Ticked,
    Nog
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  2. #152
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Hey Matt you have been an avid xbow hunter for longer than most of us, tell these fine folks how many bull moose you have tipped over. I have tipped over a grand total of 2, and believe me both were shithouse lucky. This year i know of one that was harvested in the bow season in 6-04, yes only one and the area i hunt is from Burns to Ootsa lake and beyond. The CO there hunts with an xbow and to my knowledge has never tipped one over himself. As for the cocked xbows in a vehicle this is totally laughable, this same CO bitches all the time about the number of tickets he writes for loaded firearms, so with this skewed logic maybe time to ban firearms too. Where is TD's response about the CO, i call bullshit on that too, give it up so we can all call him and get the goods.
    Avatar is for all the conspiracy theory nut bars, for all the crow they have to eat when everything implodes

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  3. #153
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Why the ban on scopes on a crossbow be banned? I wouk=ld think that anything that enhances accuracy would be a good thing. Or is the ban just for bow only season?

  4. #154
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    Arrow Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Piperdown View Post
    Hey Matt you have been an avid xbow hunter for longer than most of us, tell these fine folks how many bull moose you have tipped over...
    Yes I have. And gone through many bows to find the one I'll likely keep forever.

    As for moose, that would be a grand total of ZERO.

    There are methods to make government employees feel mighty uncomfortable utilizing legal tools at our disposal.
    I am lining up on several as we speak.
    And I am indeed lining up on the Ministry and BC government as well. Legal Beagle is licking his chops...
    Say When...

    Nog
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  5. #155
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Things and technology change, lets be honest there.
    When Bow season started, it was considered a "short range" weapon.
    (Note: short range).
    And giving an earlier start to those folks makes sense, although yes, once they have traipsed in the woods for a week bugling/calling etc, the jig is up and the game knows hunting season is on, which then makes GOS season a little harder when I it starts, but that's not a bad thing (remember, we are hunting, not out killing).
    (besides the point, but some argue that so worth mentioning).

    And the "give 2 rifle hunters a bow or Xbow", and which will they shoot better, I agree, Xbow hands down! (that's the truth).
    Thing is, XBow is not a "short range weapon" any longer.
    The FPS rates make this weapon just as effective as a 30/30 (maybe even better??).
    So, that's were the "grey/gray area" is, in regards to their use on Bow only.
    (Only have to look at Alberta to see how they look at it, and that's another fair point, imo)
    Disability, good to go (that is allowed in Alberta, but I think some folks take their disability to the umpteenth degree to say why
    they need a disability permit...seen it here in BC on other matters)

    Lots of hunters have XBows now, that never owned vertical bows not ever would have gone vertical bow if Xbows weren't allowed in BOS.
    IS it to "extend their season"????
    I don't know, I suppose that is just a "spin-off".
    I think most get them to hunt in a "timeframe" that they feel gives them a better chance to harvest their quarry.
    Also, quite often the "restriction on antler size" is lower as well, which helps increase the chances of success.
    So, less antler restriction and using a "Medium Range Weapon" are the 2 big factors.
    (I know it is something I contemplate every August before the season begins, but haven't done so as of yet.)

    So, are there more hunters out there during BOS due to XBow….for sure, imo.
    Is there some increased success due to more hunters, yes, if the game is around, and is there more success given the
    extended range....more than likely, imo.

    2 points not brought up, not often enough:
    For the CO's, the nightmare is more about game being poached "inside city/town limits".
    Yes, a vertical bow is equivalent, but agin, extended range and the fact that there are many folks with XBows adds to this issue.
    So, we have to understand the CO's perspective on that.

    The other point is, some GO's do not like having hunters in their territory before they are in there with their clients.
    (Lets face it, some GO's are great, but we also have another camp who hate anybody but themselves hunting and that will never
    change.
    Hunting alone can bring on a "competitive nature" for some, and throw in money....well, enough said).

    And sure, there are some die-hard traditionalists in the Bow World who hate XBows in their BOS season.
    (But, when it comes to this Ban, they didn't play a role in it, even if they feel it will benefit them)
    For someone that has over 5000 posts, it is painfully obvious that you NO NOTHING ABOUT BOW HUNTING!
    for someone to claim that a crossbow is in ANY way as effective or (maybe even better) than a 30/30, is so uninformed as to be ignorant of the realities of hunting with a crossbow, or a 30/30. To voice your so miss informed opinion as a long time member of the hunting community, does a great disservice to all hunters.

    I have hunted with recurve, compound and crossbow. I hunt with a partner that uses one of the latest long range crossbows. trying to put a killing shot into a screaming bull elk is totally different than target shooting, we had 2 bulls inside 60 yards broadside. that high price crossbow didn't get the job done. I had another big bull standing broadside at 48 yards, had my 50 yard pin on him without rangeing. I questioned in my mind the range, so I took out my range finder to confirm, the bull took a step forward leaving no shot at his vitals so I had to pass. Later in the hunt, another partner had a shot at a little over 60 yards. He killed that bull, he was useing a COMPOUND BOW.
    As for poaching with a crossbow, IT'S POACHING, not hunting and as such, hunters should not be held to account for poachers. same logic as banning guns to get them out of the hands of criminals! A poacher IS a criminal.

  6. #156
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by btridge View Post
    For someone that has over 5000 posts, it is painfully obvious that you NO NOTHING ABOUT BOW HUNTING!
    for someone to claim that a crossbow is in ANY way as effective or (maybe even better) than a 30/30, is so uninformed as to be ignorant of the realities of hunting with a crossbow, or a 30/30. To voice your so miss informed opinion as a long time member of the hunting community, does a great disservice to all hunters.

    I have hunted with recurve, compound and crossbow. I hunt with a partner that uses one of the latest long range crossbows. trying to put a killing shot into a screaming bull elk is totally different than target shooting, we had 2 bulls inside 60 yards broadside. that high price crossbow didn't get the job done. I had another big bull standing broadside at 48 yards, had my 50 yard pin on him without rangeing. I questioned in my mind the range, so I took out my range finder to confirm, the bull took a step forward leaving no shot at his vitals so I had to pass. Later in the hunt, another partner had a shot at a little over 60 yards. He killed that bull, he was useing a COMPOUND BOW.
    As for poaching with a crossbow, IT'S POACHING, not hunting and as such, hunters should not be held to account for poachers. same logic as banning guns to get them out of the hands of criminals! A poacher IS a criminal.
    First of all...relax!

    I have some experience.
    Especially when my father in law and his best friend, is one of the best in BC! at shoots.
    So, I get well informed info.

    My comments I think are misconstrued by you.

    I wasn't talking so much about my opinion on this matter, as much as I was discussing the "different perspectives" that were
    "coming to the table" in regards to the ban and also "most hunters" (yes, not overly informed on Xbows or any bows for that
    matter!) and what runs in their minds.

    A lot of folks have XBows (usually rifle hunters).
    Some due to physical disability but always wanted to use a bow!
    BUT, there are many who have Xbows because it offers them better opportunity and potentially success at a "better time of season"! (and that's all...if they could take the rifle they would!)

    Most purists of the bow would say XBows are medium range weapons, not just short range.
    And yes, a compound can be handle just as well by someone who knows what he or she is doing!

    BUT, heres the thing...too many folks out there think "they can do it"!
    Meaning taking shots out to a distance that are far beyond their capabilities.
    (Not the Bows or XBows!).

    The "truth sucks" at times...I get that, and usually people who get upset like your post know more about the truth then most
    take time to consider.
    Truth is, most people don't take near enough time to "practice"!
    Whether a rifle or a bow!
    Probably 75% of hunters don't take enough time and practice, but if they see a moose out at 500 -600, will take the shot.
    Same goes for bows and xbows!

    Yes, all weapons, even the 30/30, can "get r done"! (to think I am stupid on that fact tells me something right there about you!)
    And yes, Xbows and Verticals can as well.
    Rifles can punch out to 1000 etc.
    All capable of killing, and EVERYONE knows that!
    And actually, that is the issue!
    Everyone knows what these weapons are capable of.....but, few take the time to truly use it to their max.

    As far as in town city limits "poaching" as you say.
    Of course it is "not hunting"! and of course it is poaching...duhhhhhhhh!
    All I implying in my post is "what the CO's see"!
    Why it was brought up at the table in R6!
    Just giving the reasons to some as to "why we got here" (scope ban!)

    Yes, it makes no sense how this proposal hit the table!
    And even many at the table were scratching their heads how it happened.
    (Sort of why Ironnoggin was digging in deep to see who did/said what!??)

    There are always 2 or 3 sides to an argument.
    I was bringing up the reasons why some who we don't hear about on HBC wanted to do something about Xbows.
    And you know what, as much as I support hunters (as you say, over 5000 posts, I am sure it will only take a post or 2 to see
    I am pro hunters and stand behind everyone here), we do have some "asshats" in the crowd.
    Just like everything ….everywhere you go!.

    And there are folks amongst us, they can be great folks, but can do stupid stuff.
    Some tend to push the limits of what is in their hands when they hunt.
    (I have made that mistake myself when I was young).
    The weapons can do the job....but can the person behind it actually do it ???
    Do they do much to ensure they can?

    Whats the point of talking about anything, if we "cant be honest"!
    If we cant look at ourselves and see where we go wrong.
    We aren't perfect and is really stupid to think we are.

    Do I support the XBow ban or a scope ban...f*** no.
    Get more CO's for the poaching crap.
    Start working on getting funding and the balls in the air to rectify some of our habitat issues (although I don't know how you fix overlogging??? but wait 40 years???).

    And also, with that R6 issue, was the Moose harvests that came up!
    And it was discussed to get rid of the BOS!??????
    Really, someone thinks getting rid of the BOS will help?????
    They kill that may????
    Wouldn't one go after the GO allocation instead???
    Or the LEH???????

    Problem with HBC, you cant always put into words what one is trying to "Really say" and it gets misconstrued.
    Hopefully that is all that happened here.
    Personally, would much rather discuss this shit in person!!
    (Don't worry, I can stand behind my words!....im person even better).

    The only issue with this XBow/Scope ban (I still think you will one day down the road see a full on XBow ban during BOS just
    like Alberta), is "who SUPPORTED IT"!!!????
    I already know "who didn't"!!!

    As I said before, the guilty ones are just the Bio/CO who came up with a Moose #'s/BOS issue and the XBow dilemma (CO) in R6.
    BUT, also "WHO STAYED QUIET"!!!
    Who "didn't protest" it????!!!!!
    Meaning, who wanted it!!???
    nd what would their reasons be???
    (Usually personal gain....ie. some GO's in the area).
    And then there are some purists who would like to see them gone also (for sure!)

    The worst part was, the Vertical Bow guys were almost the fall guys for this proposal.
    When I fact, that weren't!
    And that is BS in my books!!!!!!!!!!
    Honestly, these proposals should be "above board" so that EVERYONE can see who supports what and why.
    Anyways, doesn't effect me whether they get rid of them or keep them.
    But, I still support hunters to "keep them".
    I support hunting.
    Hunting hasn't caused the issues to the extent many think in this province and why we are seeing such drastic declines.
    Doubt a XBow is the big reason.
    All I see is little bits and pieces of hunting being chiseled away.....flake by flake, eroding it to no end till its all gone.

    As for hunters taking more time to get to the range, practice and understand that yes, in the field is definitely not like at the range.
    If you can put the shots inside 1 1/2 at 100 yards, then I would say leave the 500 yard shots to those that can.
    And in the field, you don't have nowhere near the stable rest you do at the range.
    Same goes for Bows and XBows….
    Know your limits.....stay inside them!

  7. #157
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    Thumbs down Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    First of all...relax!
    Nothing in that rather long diatribe you responded with (although you did make some succinct points) addresses your assertion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    ... Thing is, XBow is not a "short range weapon" any longer.
    The FPS rates make this weapon just as effective as a 30/30 (maybe even better??).
    And because of that, I, among many, are more than beginning to question you...

    Nog
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    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

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  8. #158
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
    Nothing in that rather long diatribe you responded with (although you did make some succinct points) addresses your assertion:



    And because of that, I, among many, are more than beginning to question you...

    Nog
    Why??????
    Because I have an opinion?
    That when BOS 1st started, many looked at this season as having little affect on overall harvest #'s.
    That, back then, XBows were things you saw in movies.

    Reality is, many folks have Xbows that never would of had a vertical bow, for whatever reason, physical or other.
    Why is the "truth" so scary for some of you??

    So, when they enacted a BOS, they looked at the "weapons of the day" as "short range".
    (yes, some can do way longer shots....some.)

    But, like everything, technology changes.
    So have bows....and now Xbows.
    Its a fact....deal with it!

    And the whole reason for my post was because one member made a statement that most folks will shoot really well "out of the box"
    with an XBow over a vertical bow!
    He was right! and was mostly acknowledging his point and was getting the gears from others.

    My 12 year old can shoot the XBow way better then a Compound at 1st try!
    That's the truth....so get over it that as well!!

    Don't think I recall a 30/30 being used these days in "long range competition"....
    (medium range weapon, especially like the one I used when I 1dt hunted that was "iron sight only"!!)

    Questioning me??????????????
    Really?????????????

    F***, if this is what folks are like on this site, then yes, I should stop wasting my time, because then we truly have some folks that
    think they can "bash their way" into making "their way happen"!!??? (good luck)
    FYI, let me know how the GUN BAN works out for ya all if you think your chest beating is "going to help".
    Scream all you want, it wont make a difference if that's all one thinks it will take!

    Lots more to dealing with issues then "sounding tough"! (cause that's all it is!)

    My point is, if we want to understand (an we should take the time to understand things from the other side), and come to a
    proper solution, we need to look at the issues others present.

    As far as the Scope Ban, if the CO is worried about poaching happening more "due to the fact that more Xbows exist".
    (and maybe it is...maybe some folks who would never have thought of taking that buck in the neighbors backyard is now tempted
    cause he now as a xbow??!!), then we need to atleast "hear them out".
    Come up with a solution.
    Solution is saw was "more CO's"...not a scope ban.

    Same for the Bio that felt maybe the BOS is overharvesting due to all the folks now out there with XBows.
    Firstly, (and I think you made this comment somewhere …" we need a study to see if that is true", and factually, I believe
    my records show that actually it was the "bow guys" at the table that said there needed to be a study first!!!)

    Right there is the other issue:
    If someone I the Ministry wants to do away with BOS, they better have supporting evidence!
    (which doesn't exist as of now)
    So again, there is the solution there before we implement a scope ban or do away with BOS in "sensitive areas".

    Anyways, I have way more shit to do in my own life then worry about folks here.
    Seems like you all have it figured out.
    Paint me the way you want.....
    I am still going hunting next season....
    And I still am going to have my opinions.

  9. #159
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    BMI, i used to read your posts and found some interesting but for christ sakes will you put the brakes on your looooong winded posts they are becoming tiresome

    (Anyways, I have way more shit to do in my own life then worry about folks here.)...... do you see how funny this is
    Last edited by Piperdown; 01-27-2020 at 05:39 PM.
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  10. #160
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    Thumbs up Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    ... Anyways, I have way more shit to do in my own life then worry about folks here...
    Then get on with it. Adios!

    Shaking the ol' noggin once again...
    Nog
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    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

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