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Thread: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

  1. #41
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Wild one, I am still confused as to what these wild claims are. 90% of my friends who hunt are rifle hunters exclusively. But even with that I know of one moose that taken this year outside of PG at close to 70 yards. Also known a few deer that were taken between 50 and 60 and the largest mule deer I have ever personally seen taken in BC was harvested at 62yds (measured) outside Kamloops 7 years ago. Just because you do not think it is possible or common does not mean that people are not out their practicing or attemting these shots.

    But regardless, the motion as presented is not based on how much practice it takes to become proficient. It is simply based on the apparent ability of crossbows to harvest game at much longer distances than a crossbow. That is simply not true. Yes, it takes much more practice but so what?
    I don't shoot innocent animals... Just the ones that look guilty!

  2. #42
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulehahn View Post
    Wild one, I am still confused as to what these wild claims are. 90% of my friends who hunt are rifle hunters exclusively. But even with that I know of one moose that taken this year outside of PG at close to 70 yards. Also known a few deer that were taken between 50 and 60 and the largest mule deer I have ever personally seen taken in BC was harvested at 62yds (measured) outside Kamloops 7 years ago. Just because you do not think it is possible or common does not mean that people are not out their practicing or attemting these shots.

    But regardless, the motion as presented is not based on how much practice it takes to become proficient. It is simply based on the apparent ability of crossbows to harvest game at much longer distances than a crossbow. That is simply not true. Yes, it takes much more practice but so what?
    I am fully aware of what both the crossbow and compound are capable of. I know the distance people will reach out and that there is people practicing to reach these distances. I am also aware that the % of archers that are capable at reach the long ranges vs a crossbow are not the same.

    With a rest or shooting sticks you remove form and release factors that most archers will never overcome.

    The defence that a compound and crossbow are equal because a compound shooter that is above average can shoot as far as a crossbow shooter who has owned the crossbow for a week is just as dumb as the the proposal

    Carry on though

  3. #43
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    well that sounds about as dumb as the "assualt rifle" ban that JT is bringing down on us...
    Firearms and fishing rods, my idea of a good time!

  4. #44
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    I am fully aware of what both the crossbow and compound are capable of. I know the distance people will reach out and that there is people practicing to reach these distances. I am also aware that the % of archers that are capable at reach the long ranges vs a crossbow are not the same.

    With a rest or shooting sticks you remove form and release factors that most archers will never overcome.

    The defence that a compound and crossbow are equal because a compound shooter that is above average can shoot as far as a crossbow shooter who has owned the crossbow for a week is just as dumb as the the proposal

    Carry on though
    I don't believe it takes an above average shooter to consistently hit a 4" circle at 70 yards. Takes more practice, but i have no doubt that anyone who puts in one practice session every week or two could do it. But all the above average shooters i know practice more than that so your motives may vary.

    But I am not going to carry on this conversation. If you truly believe that you have to an amazing archer to pull it off that is fine. Regardless, that is not the point of the proposal. As it is written it is that crossbows are able to make 70 yard not shots PERIOD that us the problem, not that they can make them easier. If that is the case so can compounds. I think i have only shot 1 crossbow in my life, think i hit what the target where I was aiming. Don't remember.
    I don't shoot innocent animals... Just the ones that look guilty!

  5. #45
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    So just so you all know the BCWF does not support this, I am a member and did contact the Fed and this is all hear say.

  6. #46
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Fearnodeer--please dont confuse this conversation with FACTS !! Some of the conspiracy dudes will chit themselves !!! LOL !!!

  7. #47
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajsawden View Post
    I have to ask. How many people are honestly shooting deer at 100 yards with a crossbow as the rule change suggests?
    Probably less than those people shooting game at 100 yards and beyond with compound bows. As evidenced in these youtube links. I would bet that there is more lost game by hunters with compound bows than any other archery method.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXTRrtYoRNE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTZ806MrhRE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIH0bz0Lz0w

    These three videos portray mostly compound archery kills. Not one crossbow., Pay attention to the last video. Some of the shots are at distance well beyond the 40 yard window, most in the range of the purported compound 100 yard window. Sure, tell me that these hunts were beyond our borders, but it makes no difference, those with a penchant to take long shots will do so regardless, be it rifle, bow, compound bow or crossbow. Some think that they have some special prowess at killing game with long far away shots. That's because they lack the real ability to get close to make the kill like real hunters. Long shots are like premature ejaculation.


    Since this is a dedicated BCWF section, where are the talking heads that govern the BCWF. Cringing behind the green door?
    ".....It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of a Trudeau government than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their prime minister......​"

  8. #48
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by fearnodeer View Post
    So just so you all know the BCWF does not support this, I am a member and did contact the Fed and this is all hear say.
    so why does the BC goverment claim they do? If they don't support it they should demand to have their name removed from the recommending body that supports it.

  9. #49
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    The problem is that a group of people who have no great experience or expertise with crossbows were asked to evaluate the following with regards to crossbows:


    1. Does the hunting method, tool, or tactic:



    • Negate wildlife’s ability to avoid detection?
    • Negate wildlife’s ability to escape once it has detected a threat?
    • Lead to an inhumane treatment of wildlife?
    • Lead to increased wounding loss/jeopardize a hunter’s ability to retrieve the wildlife?
    • Jeopardize public acceptance of hunting?
    • Result in higher harvest rates/reduced opportunity in the future?


    The people asked to make this evaluation were representatives of : B.C. Wildlife Federation, Guide Outfitters Association of B.C., B.C. Trappers Association, Wild Sheep Society, Wildlife Stewardship Council, and United Bowhunters of B.C. With one exception one would not expect any particular representative of those groups to have expertise on crossbow use. Even in the case of the UBBC representative there no assurance he or she had any particular expertise about crossbows. The one I talked to was not absent of knowledge but is not well experienced with crossbows or archery to my knowledge.


    Based on current advertising one might expect that people with little archery experience could fined issue with crossbows equipped with scopes. Afterall they look somewhat like rifles (some like black rifles) and have scopes on them Therefore they must be deadly at long range. And then let us not forget the predjudice of some archer hunters towards crossbow hunters.

    The fact is that for at least 100 years there have been competitions using longbows, recurves and more recently compound bows where the participants shoot accurately at targets to at least 90 meters distant. The FITA round consists of shooting 144 arrows total at four targets spaced at 30, 50 70 and 90 meters. The 10 ring on these targets is more or less 10 or 12 cm and the bullseye more or less double that diameter. Participants in these matches rather consistently place most of their arrows in the gold. Evidence is clear that one does not need a scope or modern equipment to rather precisely poke arrows in targets at distances approaching 100 metres. When my wife and I used to compete the scores posted by the crossbow shooters were typically somewhat lower than those by the bow shooters, but then that was half a century ago (well maybe a bit more).

    What was not presented to the evaluators was the information that those rifle appearing scoped weapons suffer the same problems hitting at a random distance as any arrow flinging device. Even with the advertised velocities for modern crossbows it takes nearly a second for an arrow to reach that 100 metre distant animal. IF a deer can jump the string at 25 metres, it may figuratively not be in the same postal code by the time an arrow reaches 100 metres after the racket a crossbow makes when fired. Ignoring string jumping, during that nearly one second flight time a walking deer has moved the aiming point 1.5 to 2 metres longitudinally (probably). A 5 mph breeze has moved the impact point of the bolt some variable distance based on the characteristics of the particular bolt, its initial velocity and flight characteristics. That velocity which will decrease by the order of 20% or more over that distance will arrive with 30% to 40% less energy resulting in perhaps not getting the pass through required for a good blood trail. Even worse is the fact that the ballistic arc/drop of the bolt will be of the order of two metres at 100 metres and increasing rapidly with each additional metre of distance between the launch point and the target. Hitting the kill zone of deer size target would require the hunter to know the target distance almost precisely to achieve a killing hit. Miss judge by five to ten metres the distance to target and it is Maggy drawers to you sir.

    Yes in theory any of the common arrow flingers can be accurate enough to hit a target at a precisely known distance for which the sights can be set and in the absence of any climatic influence. Toss in a little wind, a little movement of the target, a little rain, maybe some increase or decrease in elevation and move that target backward or forward 10 meters and that precision shooting degenerates into pattern shooting with broad dispersion. Yes modern advancements in both crossbows and compounds have extended the distance they might be used efficiently but realistically it is not much more than the 40 metres we used to look at as a maximum ethical range for bow hunting.

    Of interest is a description in a current bow hunting magazine. It describes the trials and tribulations of a number of sports writers testing a modern crossbow affixed with a top of the line crossbow optic. They had no problem in dialing in the equipment at 50 yards. When they tried to step out to 100 yards, advertisers cant be damned, hitting a target was just not going to be done on call. First off, the scope would not provide enough adjustment to see the target at 100 yards. They had to hold on the top of a distant hill and they lost a few bolts trying to walk the bolts on target. Eventually one of the five shooters was able to hit an apple at 100 yards and they called it a day.


    Last edited by dracb; 12-16-2019 at 12:14 PM.
    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

  10. #50
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    Jun 2014
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    I strongly encourage people who want to keep crossbow hunting in B.C., to voice themselves on the current proposal. It's easy to do, click on the link in post #1 of this thread, login, and vote. Thank you!
    Last edited by last light; 12-15-2019 at 11:33 PM.

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