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Thread: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

  1. #51
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by dracb View Post
    The problem is that a group of people who have no great experience or expertise with crossbows were asked to evaluate the following with regards to crossbows:


    1. Does the hunting method, tool, or tactic:



    • Negate wildlife’s ability to avoid detection?
    • Negate wildlife’s ability to escape once it has detected a threat?
    • Lead to an inhumane treatment of wildlife?
    • Lead to increased wounding loss/jeopardize a hunter’s ability to retrieve the wildlife?
    • Jeopardize public acceptance of hunting?
    • Result in higher harvest rates/reduced opportunity in the future?


    The people asked to make this evaluation were representatives of : B.C. Wildlife Federation, Guide Outfitters Association of B.C., B.C. Trappers Association, Wild Sheep Society, Wildlife Stewardship Council, and United Bowhunters of B.C. With one exception one would not expect any particular representative of those groups to have expertise on crossbow use. Even in the case of the UBBC representative there no assurance he or she had any particular expertise about crossbows. The one I talked to was not absent of knowledge but is not well experienced with crossbows or archery to my knowledge.


    Based on current advertising one might expect that people with little archery experience could fined issue with crossbows equipped with scopes. Afterall they look somewhat like rifles (some like black rifles) and have scopes on them Therefore they must be deadly at long range. And then let us not forget the predjudice of some archer hunters towards crossbow hunters.

    The fact is that for at least 100 years there have been competitions using longbows, recurves and more recently compound bows where the participants shoot accurately at targets to at least 90 meters distant. The FITA round consists of shooting 144 arrows total at four targets spaced at 30, 50 70 and 90 meters. The 10 ring on these targets is more or less 10 or 12 cm and the bullseye more or less double that diameter. Participants in these matches rather consistently place most of their arrows in the gold. Evidence is clear that one does not need a scope or modern equipment to rather precisely poke arrows in targets at distances approaching 100 metres. When my wife and I used to compete the scores posted by the crossbow shooters were typically somewhat lower than those by the bow shooters, but then that was half a century ago (well maybe a bit more).

    What was not presented to the evaluators was the information that those rifle appearing scoped weapons suffer the same problems hitting at a random distance as any arrow flinging device. Even with the advertised velocities for modern crossbows it takes nearly a second for an arrow to reach that 100 metre distant animal. IF a deer can jump the string at 25 metres, it may not be in the same postal code by the time an arrow reaches 100 metres after the racket a crossbow makes when fired. Ignoring string jumping, during that nearly one second flight time a walking deer has moved the aiming point 1.5 to 2 metres longitudinally (probably). A 5 mph breeze has moved the impact point of the bolt some variable distance based on the characteristics of the particular bolt, its initial velocity and flight characteristics. That velocity which will decrease by the order of 20% or more over that distance will arrive with 30% to 40% less energy resulting in perhaps not getting the pass through required for a good blood trail. Even worse is the fact that the ballistic arc/drop of the bolt will be of the order of two metres at 100 metres and increasing rapidly with each additional metre of distance between the launch point and the target. Hitting the kill zone of deer size target would require the hunter to know the target distance almost precisely to achieve a killing hit. Miss judge by five to ten metres the distance to target and it is Maggy drawers to you sir.

    Yes in theory any of the common arrow flingers can be accurate enough to hit a target at a precisely known distance for which the sights can be set and in the absence of any climatic influence. Toss in a little wind, a little movement of the target, a little rain, maybe some increase or decrease in elevation and move that target backward or forward 10 meters and that precision shooting degenerates into pattern shooting with broad dispersion. Yes modern advancements in both crossbows and compounds have extended the distance they might be used efficiently but realistically it is not much more than the 40 metres we used to look at as a maximum ethical range for bow hunting.

    Of interest is a description in a current bow hunting magazine. It describes the trials and tribulations of a number of sports writers testing a modern crossbow affixed with a top of the line crossbow optic. They had no problem in dialing in the equipment at 50 yards. When they tried to step out to 100 yards, advertisers cant be damned, hitting a target was just not going to be done on call. First off they scope would not provide enough adjustment to see the target at 100 yards. They had to hold on the top of a distant hill and the lost a few bolts trying to walk the bolts on target. Eventually one of the five shooters was able to hit an apple at 100 yards and they called it a day.


    Thanks for taking the time for this factual representation on archery and bowhunting. I would hope that you have presented this in rebuttal to the proposal.
    ".....It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of a Trudeau government than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their prime minister......​"

  2. #52
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Knowledgeable shooters agree- The 375 Ruger is the NEW KING of all 375 caliber cartridges. ALL HAIL THE NEW KING!

  3. #53
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Knowledgeable shooters agree- The 375 Ruger is the NEW KING of all 375 caliber cartridges. ALL HAIL THE NEW KING!

  4. #54
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Knowledgeable shooters agree- The 375 Ruger is the NEW KING of all 375 caliber cartridges. ALL HAIL THE NEW KING!

  5. #55
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Yup every archer can do that lol

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    768

    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Yea good video because that's what archery is all about,that's what I strive for. Gate if you can't see what's wrong with that then SMH.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    1,075

    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Quote Originally Posted by fearnodeer View Post
    So just so you all know the BCWF does not support this, I am a member and did contact the Fed and this is all hear say.
    pretty clear that whomever you spoke to in the lower mainland office is out of touch with what the phatat rep did or didn’t agree to at a meeting. In fact the board of the fed is likely unaware. IF it was the case the fed was against this proposal where is there opposition noted?? Looks to me like more old boys club play dumb and carry on with the agenda

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    1,633

    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Well if you are referring to a thread here that was started as the BCWF Reg 2 want to ban crossbows ? that was a that full of false information, it was mentioned that that be re classified but never made it anywhere, you can go on the BCWF website and find no support for any of this. It would be better for you to contact the Government as well as the BCWF with you disagreements with the proposed changes. The time spent here bashing would be better spent writing a letter to the above.

  9. #59
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    Dec 2009
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    Reminds me of the Grizzly hunt ban.

  10. #60
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    May 2004
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    Re: BCWF supports BAN on crossbow scopes

    I understand this and other proposed regulation changes usually come as a surprise. It isn't easy to stay connected and aware of discussions that eventually become proposals for change. Most people involved in committee, are subject to a degree of confidentiality to ensure that rumours don't take hold early on in the process.

    The province supports regional hunting advisory groups, a provincial hunting/trapping advisory team and an online engagement process to obtain proposals, discussion and feedback.

    At the end of the day, everyone involved understands they must continue to work together as hunters and conservationists. These decisions are not made without a lot of dialogue. Of course not everyone will be happy. Just like, not everyone is happy when they change a season in the regulations. People like the status quo.

    I think it is important to understand the history of how this and other decisions came about. About a year ago, some of the participants on the Provincial committee started to raise questions about 'Fair Chase'. And it was agreed to form a committee to discuss the topic of fair chase. As you see in the proposals, (methods, tools, and tactics) weapons use, and determining seasons falls under Short, Mid and Long range weapons. There were approximately 20 items listed for discussion that were 'ranked' on a variety of criteria. In the end, each item landed with a decision to:

    • regulate,
    • discourage (educate),
    • monitor or
    • defer

    Criteria used, were:

    • fair chase,
      • an animals ability to avoid detection,
      • an animals ability to escape once detected

    • humane treatment of wildlife,
    • wounding,
    • public perception and acceptance of hunting,
    • harvest rates,
    • enforcement.


    The UBBC sought bowhunter representation from each region on a sub-committee and included the provincial organizations BCAA and TBBC in the discussion. The UBBC had a single representative on the Provincial Fair Chase committee.

    Everyone contributes. And Government analyze the information and render the decision/proposal.

    With technology advancing, it is not unreasonable to have fair chase discussions. This isn't about crossbows. This is about fair chase and determining seasons. It's also important to know the Conservation Officer service was an active participant in the discussion and they provide important information which factors into decisions.

    There is a lot of Youtube video, hunting shows and hunting ads, that lead a lot of (perhaps new) hunters to believe incorrectly about the effective range of weapons. Target shooting is very different than taking aim on a live animal.

    We can't make statements about aligning to North American Wildlife Management Models and Science-based decisions if we aren't prepared to look at our own approach (Methods, Tools and Tactics) as hunters.

    In all of these discussions, there was never any attempt to divide the hunting community, or chip away at hunter numbers and there was every attempt to maintain opportunity. This group of hunters and academic wildlife biologists, maintains respect for the rights of Indigenous People, the Guide Outfitting business, trapping, and resident hunters.

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