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Thread: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

  1. #81
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Regarding genetics, there's an interesting Meat Eater podcast out there titled Landscape of Fear. It's got a couple of guys with PhD's from the Muley Fanatic Foundation. They have research that suggests nutrition for the mother while carrying her offspring can play a larger role in predicting the size of a buck than what we call "genetics". They make an interesting and compelling argument. I'm not doing them any justice passing on the Coles Notes version but whether you like the podcast or not it passed on some very interesting information.

  2. #82
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    I agree the shooting of short bucks is a slob problem but it’s still an issue. But this is not the only issue with point restrictions. Like I said majority of North America abandoned the practice with deer and it goes beyond short deer. It is outdated inferior management

    Hybrids are also rare WT don’t breed out MD. The only case that is an issue is MD breeding out BT where hybrids are common. Competition from WT with MD is over feed and mostly in wintering grounds. Elk are actually documented as the number one ungulate when it comes to out impacting MD numbers through competition
    Valerius Geist disagrees with you, and I tend to believe in his MD/WT hypothesis.

    Alberta has an issue of completely losing MD populations in the presence of WTs.
    Biologists here believe that WT deer do contribute to MD population reduction through mating.
    This concerns is amplified when the MD population is under other mortality stressors and especially when the population becomes smaller....

  3. #83
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    Valerius Geist disagrees with you, and I tend to believe in his MD/WT hypothesis.

    Alberta has an issue of completely losing MD populations in the presence of WTs.
    Biologists here believe that WT deer do contribute to MD population reduction through mating.
    This concerns is amplified when the MD population is under other mortality stressors and especially when the population becomes smaller....
    The issue that is always brought is people see hybrids running around and I believe Geist says they wouldn't make it to adulthood. That doesn't mean a whitetail buck breeds a mulie doe and gets her pregnant and she aborts half way through winter or gives birth to a still born or a live fawn that is so F-upped that it never lives more then a day. That would indeed start dropping the mulie populations as the mulie does are all bred but never produce a functioning fawn.

    BHB
    Quote Originally Posted by BiG Boar View Post
    Are you M or F? Might get more takers with tits.

  4. #84
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Everything I have read in the past was regarding surviving hybrids. If Geist theory is like bighornbob mentioned and they are not making it to term that could throw a warp in things. If this theory is correct it would be a big game changer.

    Has there been a study to prove this as fact or is it still a theory?

    If this is correct it would also throw the opinions that because all does are pregnant in the present study means there is enough mule deer bucks

    The issue with wildlife management it seems there is a ton of conflicting theories from both bios and hunters a like. Starting to think MD are just weak inferior deer because it seems everything impacts there numbers

  5. #85
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    476

    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    Everything I have read in the past was regarding surviving hybrids. If Geist theory is like bighornbob mentioned and they are not making it to term that could throw a warp in things. If this theory is correct it would be a big game changer.

    Has there been a study to prove this as fact or is it still a theory?

    If this is correct it would also throw the opinions that because all does are pregnant in the present study means there is enough mule deer bucks

    The issue with wildlife management it seems there is a ton of conflicting theories from both bios and hunters a like. Starting to think MD are just weak inferior deer because it seems everything impacts there numbers
    Geist says mule does bred by whitetail bucks produce sterile offspring. They neither stot or run but rather something more in between. Clumsy. So easier for predators to chase down. He also says where mule deer are managed for big mature bucks the mule population is stable because mature mulie bucks keep whitetail bucks at bay from mule does.

  6. #86
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    Geist says mule does bred by whitetail bucks produce sterile offspring. They neither stot or run but rather something more in between. Clumsy. So easier for predators to chase down. He also says where mule deer are managed for big mature bucks the mule population is stable because mature mulie bucks keep whitetail bucks at bay from mule does.
    That contradicts a lot of what I have read or been told. I was under the impression most mating between WT and MD usually did not take and hybrids were uncommon. But not surprised there is a different theory it seems differences in opinion are common with wildlife issues

    Sounds like I will have to look into his theory and what it is based on

    So the real question is where are these feeble hybrids when I have a rookie who is slow settling up for shots with me lol

  7. #87
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    That contradicts a lot of what I have read or been told. I was under the impression most mating between WT and MD usually did not take and hybrids were uncommon. But not surprised there is a different theory it seems differences in opinion are common with wildlife issues

    Sounds like I will have to look into his theory and what it is based on

    So the real question is where are these feeble hybrids when I have a rookie who is slow settling up for shots with me lol
    I’ve shot two hybrids in the last 6 years. And it seems to me that I mostly see them when whitetail are just moving into an new area then after a few years no more hybrids and just mostly whitetail. I do believe hybrids are fairly rare thought because I almost never see them anymore

  8. #88
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    So it makes me wonder if in fact most do die at birth? Hybrids are definitely not a common thing

  9. #89
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    i saw four whitetail bucks dogging muley does in heat this year alone.

  10. #90
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    What your saying makes sense for sure especially when you look at other provinces. Leh for late season bucks would make more sense I would think. Would limit harvest and still give opportunity. A few others made comments that we think we are experts.. but I would argue against that. Just to say we love deer and deer hunting and like to politely argue about possible ideas lol.
    Yes, there are some people who like to dog others with quick smart ass responses.
    (only have o go to a few threads here to see who that is, click on there name, check there posts and it becomes real obvious, real quick)

    Since you and I hunt fairly close together, I can give you a few examples of the 4pt issue.
    There were several years where I saw 2 really large 3pt MD, and would have had no issue shooting them, but it was 4pt season.
    And yes, we have a long Any buck season, yet these 2 bucks always survived that time frame.
    Goes to show that mature bucks stay really hidden and only get stupid during the rut when Does get into heat.
    Only show up at the peak of the rut and cant a damn thing about it.
    And they are chasing off some decent 4 pts (watched it several times, too far to shoot)
    Now, if the breed the Does, then there is a chance they are passing on that 3pt gene.
    Doesn't mean a male offspring will be 3pt, but the gene is still in there.

    Also, we now have a 1 MD limit
    This will take some time to show the benefits too, so we have to wait and see.
    But when you have folks having to focus on 4pts (just like 6pt elk), it has the potential to have a majority of 4pts to not get older.
    If it had been any buck, I would have tagged out on the 3pt, rather then the 4pt the next day.

    That's how I look at it and why a point restriction just doesn't work the way people think it will.

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