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Thread: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

  1. #71
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    WT, not MD...yes


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


  2. #72
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourea View Post
    WT, not MD...yes
    Ok I don’t think WT are facing an issue with ratios in B.C. and Nov 22 sounds about right for WT. Would match bang on with what I assumed for rut activity over the years actually. Kind of nice to know that

    MD are the ones I am more curious about with ratio issues possible effecting things

    Seems the big factor is leaning towards predation being the big one with the study but I always think about all possible issues

  3. #73
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourea View Post
    An FYI, one of the does collared last week didn’t make it 24hrs.
    Cat got her hrs after release.
    Yup, a study on MD in the States came up with Cat being #1 issue.
    I am assuming that is in the Boundary Area study that this Doe was killed.
    Wow....there is an issue there!

  4. #74
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Wildone is correct about hybrid issues etc.
    And also, the 4pt regs don't work (didn't work with elk and still not working with elk)
    And Ourea is right, with virtually 100% pregnancy, the issue is not enough bucks running around out there.
    Might not be enough 4 pts running around for most hunters liking, especially "big ones", but that's all it means.
    Does are getting pregnant and if a decent amount are having twins, then feed and age of Does is okay.

    That sort of widdles down some of the possible theories right there.
    Does leave Predation with a big target on its back right now.
    Could also be survivability of lack of winter range etc by the time study is done.

    But yes, "Survivability" is the name of the game of this study.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
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    476

    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    I understand what guys are saying about the 4 point thing not working. I also realize does are being taken care of in the rut. My thing is genetics. Not all mature bucks get to be trophy quality irregardless of age. I just wonder if we’re creating a bottle neck in good genetics? Very thought to figure out the right answers I think. Lots of good discussions though I think.

  6. #76
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Sometimes people tend to overthink issues and place too high value on flawed studies, small sample sizes, and their own personal views and agendas.
    Its funny how a bunch of dudes that kill deer think they are experts.

  7. #77
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by SemperAurum View Post
    Sometimes people tend to overthink issues and place too high value on flawed studies, small sample sizes, and their own personal views and agendas.
    Its funny how a bunch of dudes that kill deer think they are experts.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This right here


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


  8. #78
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    I understand what guys are saying about the 4 point thing not working. I also realize does are being taken care of in the rut. My thing is genetics. Not all mature bucks get to be trophy quality irregardless of age. I just wonder if we’re creating a bottle neck in good genetics? Very thought to figure out the right answers I think. Lots of good discussions though I think.
    the worst thing for genetics is the 4 pt season because it protects poor genetic. Old mature bucks with poor genetics are protected during the rut when they would slip up. It promotes 3pt genes and bucks with weak forks because they are tougher to identify. Dominant deer don’t need a big rack just strength and aggression. Then add in a lot of deer die when the first hit 4pts. This is one of the reasons many areas abandoned this management like I mentioned

    The proven method to promote more mature deer and quality deer is restrict overall buck harvest well harvesting across all classes when you do. You end up with a higher number of bucks in turn you have more bucks. The reason Alberta and Saskatchewan produce so many big MD is partially do to lower harvest and way higher buck to doe ratio goals. I don’t know of a single area in North America that is known for producing world class MD that does it with antler restrictions

    want genetics and quality deer and more mature bucks close early and late 4pt season when they are easiest to target and keep only the any buck season. You will harvest less deer, you won’t be weaning out your strong genetics by selecting the strong 4 pt genetics, and more bucks will reach the mature age. Probably not what you and other hunters want but it would work.

    seriously there is tons of info on the flaws with antler restrictions look into it. You can also find tons of info regarding management for the purpose of trophy/mature age class deer. Do this and you will find most areas manage MD deer very different then BC.

  9. #79
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    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    the worst thing for genetics is the 4 pt season because it protects poor genetic. Old mature bucks with poor genetics are protected during the rut when they would slip up. It promotes 3pt genes and bucks with weak forks because they are tougher to identify. Dominant deer don’t need a big rack just strength and aggression. Then add in a lot of deer die when the first hit 4pts. This is one of the reasons many areas abandoned this management like I mentioned

    The proven method to promote more mature deer and quality deer is restrict overall buck harvest well harvesting across all classes when you do. You end up with a higher number of bucks in turn you have more bucks. The reason Alberta and Saskatchewan produce so many big MD is partially do to lower harvest and way higher buck to doe ratio goals. I don’t know of a single area in North America that is known for producing world class MD that does it with antler restrictions

    want genetics and quality deer and more mature bucks close early and late 4pt season when they are easiest to target and keep only the any buck season. You will harvest less deer, you won’t be weaning out your strong genetics by selecting the strong 4 pt genetics, and more bucks will reach the mature age. Probably not what you and other hunters want but it would work.

    seriously there is tons of info on the flaws with antler restrictions look into it. You can also find tons of info regarding management for the purpose of trophy/mature age class deer. Do this and you will find most areas manage MD deer very different then BC.
    One thing to remember about Alberta + Sask great Mule deer hunting and great bucks is that its LEH for 90 % of most regions . Careful what u wish for .
    "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC
    ..... The NDP approach: if the facts don't fit your ideology, just pretend the facts don't exist.......

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
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    476

    Re: Southern Interior Mule Deer Project Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    the worst thing for genetics is the 4 pt season because it protects poor genetic. Old mature bucks with poor genetics are protected during the rut when they would slip up. It promotes 3pt genes and bucks with weak forks because they are tougher to identify. Dominant deer don’t need a big rack just strength and aggression. Then add in a lot of deer die when the first hit 4pts. This is one of the reasons many areas abandoned this management like I mentioned

    The proven method to promote more mature deer and quality deer is restrict overall buck harvest well harvesting across all classes when you do. You end up with a higher number of bucks in turn you have more bucks. The reason Alberta and Saskatchewan produce so many big MD is partially do to lower harvest and way higher buck to doe ratio goals. I don’t know of a single area in North America that is known for producing world class MD that does it with antler restrictions

    want genetics and quality deer and more mature bucks close early and late 4pt season when they are easiest to target and keep only the any buck season. You will harvest less deer, you won’t be weaning out your strong genetics by selecting the strong 4 pt genetics, and more bucks will reach the mature age. Probably not what you and other hunters want but it would work.

    seriously there is tons of info on the flaws with antler restrictions look into it. You can also find tons of info regarding management for the purpose of trophy/mature age class deer. Do this and you will find most areas manage MD deer very different then BC.
    What your saying makes sense for sure especially when you look at other provinces. Leh for late season bucks would make more sense I would think. Would limit harvest and still give opportunity. A few others made comments that we think we are experts.. but I would argue against that. Just to say we love deer and deer hunting and like to politely argue about possible ideas lol.

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