First Lite vs Sitka vs Arcteryx

[Redthies]

Nothing will survive in downpour for 3+ hours including Goretex.

Well, my Helly Hanson work gear goes all day and then some, but it sure isn’t quiet or comfortable!

Thats is why I grabbed the $90 Cabela’s jacket. Gives me time to get the right thing for the long haul.

[Huntingtyler123]

I have the firstlite seak rain jacket and have used it in pouring rain paired with my kuiu rain pants And have been kept dry, very impressed.

[ryanb]

They replaced a jacket that was falling apart from what sounds like wear and tear?????

Or was it actually defective? If so, what broke on it?

Yes it was defective. The laminate was delaminating on the inside where they didn't tape edges of laminated pieces (they only taped sewn seams), the elbow pads that are glued on were also coming off. On the new version the laminated edges are taped for durability and the elbow pads are sewn on, so obviously these had become known weak points.

[ryanb]

Thanks for the info Ryan. The Zeta AR is what I had decided on from Arcteryx. It looks like the Zeta fits very long, which isn’t a bad thing. What size Zetadid you buy Ryan, and how tall/heavy are you?

I grabbed a Cabelas rain jacket on sale today just until I figure out what I for sure want, and I need to put aside some cash for my wife’s trip to Hawaii during the whitetail rut, so I have a stop-gap until I get something.

I'm 6'1" and 185lbs. I ended up with a large, but the medium also fit, but didn't allow the flexibility of layering into late fall hunts.

[twoSevenO]

Yes it was defective. The laminate was delaminating on the inside where they didn't tape edges of laminated pieces (they only taped sewn seams), the elbow pads that are glued on were also coming off. On the new version the laminated edges are taped for durability and the elbow pads are sewn on, so obviously these had become known weak points.

I had the same problem with Arcteryx. Some delamination of the inside hem, the hood "brim" etc. They repaired under warranty back in 2015, i think.
Fast forward to 2019, the jacket's pit zipper completely delaminated. So with the zipper fully zipped up, it looked as if it was fully unzipped.
Shipped the jacket back and they simply declined.

They said the jacket is past its "useful life". Then they went on to say how this is normal after about 12 years of age, and how they won't repair it because they can't guarantee that something else won't fail right after.
So i replied back asking why they call it a lifetime warranty and not a 10 year warranty, if that's the case .... never got a straight answer other than "we'll give you 50% off a new one, but we keep this one"

FU, i'm not giving you MORE money now. Ridiculous.

I ended up sending my jacket to a place in Calgary, called "Gear Restore". They fixed it up for $75 including return shiping, and the repair looks pretty good so far.

Their warranty is garbage compared to other companies. I had Simms replace a guide fishing jacket after like 9 years, no questions asked, and a pair of waders repaired for free after like 10.
From what i hear, the hunting-specific gear from Kuiu and Sitka is definitely ahead of the game for warranty repair. I know guys that had SItka warrantied and didn't even had to send the "broken" pieces back ..... which is awesome to have a back up piece of gear.

[mastercaller]

as much as I am boycotting Patagonia due to their stance on the oil and gas industry, the torrentshell was awesome. We were fishing on Haida this year, I was soaked using the lodge gear, the guide was soaked using his Simms, my bud wore a 10yr old torrentshell and was dry. It absolutely poured on us all day, wind was howling too

I bought a used Kuiu chugach this yr. Its 3 yrs old and performed well in a wet snow day and a slight drizzle/wet snow day this fall. My bud owns the same jacket and last yr he was bone dry in a heavy wet snow/rain day.

My question to you is evaluate how you hunt and what your expectation is. Are you the hunter that's spends the day in the rain or is it for "emergency"/little showers that happen

Good luck!!

[Livewire322]

To the OP:

I have a BetaAr jacket from arkteryx; it’s a fantastic jacket. I use it for waterfowl hunting the really rainy days in Ladner and always come home dry.
The key is treating your jacket with DWR monthly; if you are using it every day, hard. It will increase the lifespan of your jacket.

Also, their warranty is bomb proof. I had a delamination issue after three years of hard use and minimal care. They gave me a new jacket free of charge!

I can’t speak to the other brands you listed but arkteryx blindly gets my vote.

Nothing will survive in downpour for 3+ hours including Goretex. I switched from Goretex to Hydrofleeece and found it to be more quiet, more warm and breathable with the same water resistance as Goretex.
Original hydrofleece made by Browning. There are several other brands with different quality and price.

I’ll stand with you in the downpour wearing my BetaAR and see who gets soaked through first. I’ve been out on Boundary Bay for 8+ hours in constant driving rain and not gotten wet beneath my jacket.

I had the same problem with Arcteryx. Some delamination of the inside hem, the hood "brim" etc. They repaired under warranty back in 2015, i think.
Fast forward to 2019, the jacket's pit zipper completely delaminated. So with the zipper fully zipped up, it looked as if it was fully unzipped.
Shipped the jacket back and they simply declined.

They said the jacket is past its "useful life". Then they went on to say how this is normal after about 12 years of age, and how they won't repair it because they can't guarantee that something else won't fail right after.
So i replied back asking why they call it a lifetime warranty and not a 10 year warranty, if that's the case .... never got a straight answer other than "we'll give you 50% off a new one, but we keep this one"

FU, i'm not giving you MORE money now. Ridiculous.

I ended up sending my jacket to a place in Calgary, called "Gear Restore". They fixed it up for $75 including return shiping, and the repair looks pretty good so far.

Their warranty is garbage compared to other companies. I had Simms replace a guide fishing jacket after like 9 years, no questions asked, and a pair of waders repaired for free after like 10.
From what i hear, the hunting-specific gear from Kuiu and Sitka is definitely ahead of the game for warranty repair. I know guys that had SItka warrantied and didn't even had to send the "broken" pieces back ..... which is awesome to have a back up piece of gear.

I’ve had completely the opposite experience, as has my fiancé. Both of us have sent a jacket back to them and they have replaced the jacket no questions asked. Further, they offered for us to upgrade to a different jacket and pay the difference (between our jackets purchase price and the new items price).

Both of is had similar delamination issues after three years of hard use.

[DanD]

FWIW, 'lifetime warranty' refers to lifetime of the product, not the buyer.

I believe Arc'teryx operates on around 10-year lifespan for their hardshells, though they are pretty flexible if it looks like you tried to take care of it. I've sent back a 15yr old jacket for patching and they offered to send a new one out instead. If you trash your kit, they'll be less likely to do that for you though.

I've never found a line of waterproof gear that equals the quality of Arc'teryx, but I think Kuiu, FL and Sitka are getting closer all the time. The biggest factors the separate the hunting companies from Arc'teryx is their focus on quiet and stretchy fabrics. I know Arc'teryx doesn't like stretch in their waterproofs because it's hard on the laminated layers/glue and is inherently less durable and waterproof. The soft/quiet outer fabrics are also a lot less durable than the crinkly Arc'teryx stuff, but silence isn't an important design element for skiing or mountaineering gear.

In the PNW, when it's coming down so hard I'm in my shells, i'm not usually very concerned with noise - Arc'teryx all the way.

[twoSevenO]

FWIW, 'lifetime warranty' refers to lifetime of the product, not the buyer.

I believe Arc'teryx operates on around 10-year lifespan for their hardshells, though they are pretty flexible if it looks like you tried to take care of it. I've sent back a 15yr old jacket for patching and they offered to send a new one out instead. If you trash your kit, they'll be less likely to do that for you though.

And they decide what the "lifetime" is. Lifetime warranty, that is for the life of hte product, is the biggest retail scam of the 21st century. They decide what the lifetime is, so it could be anything.

My jacket was bought in 2005, but is in otherwise pristine condition. Not a single stain or rip on it, yet they consider that "past its lifetime". Their worksmanship on it failed. And they simply said it's lifetime is up.

F*** Y*** and your warranty. They are certainly NEVER earning my business again. Ever.

Here is their lame response where they admit the jacket is in good condition, but won't touch it simply because it is old .... Not to mention he goes on to talk how the gore-tex delaminated. The gore-tex did not delaminate. The seam tape they applied ON TOP of the gore-tex delaminated from the gore-tex.

The 3rd party that fixed the jacket, had no problem getting things to laminate properly.

Thank you for your confirmation.

I understand your frustration with the situation. If the lamination issue had occurred on a newer jacket we would have repair options. In all cases, it is unfortunate, but we would not proceed with a repair unless we are 100% confident that it will be a long-lasting solution instead of a temporary fix. Gore-tex fabric is created by bonding 3 layers of fabric together (the face fabric, the Gore-tex membrane that keep water out but allows vapor to escape and the protective backer). As you said your jacket was in no way abused, but in most cases time and humidity are the main factor when it comes to preserving the integrity of Gore-tex fabric. Once jackets start to reach the 15+ year mark it is simply general use over a long period of time that has caused the natural degradation of the fabric and the layers of fabric to separate. Once this has occurred we are unable to repair the jacket at all. While stitching could save some areas of the jacket anything that would need to be relaminated, such as the seam tape that makes the jacket waterproof, wouldn’t rebond with Gore-tex once it has begun delaminating. Due to the age of the product being past its practical lifespan and no longer within coverage of our Limited Warranty, we cannot offer a repair for this product that will meet our standards of quality.

If you want to pursue a third party repair, we will be happy to send your jacket back as is. We will simply need a confirmation of your shipping address.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Best regards,



Arc'teryx Service Team - Alex
ARC'TERYX Equipment
A Division of Amer Sports Canada Inc.
www.arcteryx.com

[Redthies]

as much as I am boycotting Patagonia due to their stance on the oil and gas industry, the torrentshell was awesome. We were fishing on Haida this year, I was soaked using the lodge gear, the guide was soaked using his Simms, my bud wore a 10yr old torrentshell and was dry. It absolutely poured on us all day, wind was howling too

I have a Torrent Shell, and a lot of other Patagonia gear. I’ve spent a lot of time in their gear for over 30 years. It is ALL top notch stuff. I agree that some of their politics go past what I like, but I find that we as hunters, actually have more in common with environmental groups than either side would care to admit. We both want good habitat, healthy forests, healthy lakes and rivers etc etc. The big difference is, we don’t live vegetarian lifestyles. We are meat eaters. So are a lot of Patagoniacs, but they prefer to hunt in aisle 7 of Wholefoods.