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Thread: Headshots? Take them or no?

  1. #91
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton Gundogs View Post
    Well if you can think you can control the forces of nature maybe you are or just arrogant animals will do what animals will do and they can F up a shot by moving just a bit. A movement of 4" means everything when dealing with a target 6" around, not near so much with a large kill zone like the boiler room. Get down off that high horse Mike I was not questioning your marksmanship only stating a fact no one has control of outside forces that govern a shot on a live creature. Jeez man don't be so insecure it's not about your shooting ability it's about minimizing risks how many times have you seen or heard of an animal ducking an archery shot. $hit happens save the higher risk shots for gongs and paper. And BTW thanks for pointing out my type O fixed now.
    Too funny!
    Done any 500+ yard shots on animals lately?? Of course you can control the forces of nature there, right!?

    I am not the one on a high horse nor the one insecure!

    Just stating what I have done with no issues. To each their own!

  2. #92
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    so 12,
    go re read my first statement in post #4 this is what I meant.

    Here in this thread you have a bunch of guys with some very real experience. Some hunting for decades and not just one or 2. If you took a piece of paper and wrote "Yes" on one side and "No" on the other I bet you would find this is pretty equally divided... Right?

    always error to the side of caution. "Stay away from headshots" is not bad advice. "Take headshots" could be bad advice. I have taken a number of head shots and never failed. but I would also never say "Go for it"

  3. #93
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lew View Post
    Not directing it any anyone in particular, but I've always wondered if those that claim
    to be excellent shots would ever admit that they made a poor shot resulting in wounding
    an animal. I've always admitted that I'm not a great marksman...average at best, so I
    know my limits. Taking a risky shot isn't something I'll do and that's why I've let far more
    animals walk than I've shot.
    Before some physical downfalls, I was a great shot.
    But now, with physical limitations, I am totally aware of what I am still comfortable with and not.

    BUT, just because I was a great shot at the range, doesn't mean the same shots are possible in the field.
    I don't need to explain all the differences as most here should be able to come up with a few reasons, although there are many.

    Head shot blowing off the jaw, is no different I suppose then a bad gut shot.
    Some bad shots animals recover from, some they never do.
    I don't know why all the arguing between each other.
    Whats the point?

    I think when I was younger, I didn't see some of the risks I was taking.
    Being older, experience has shown me what can go wrong as well.
    Hunting is no different than life.
    You have to walk it to learn it.

    IF all I can do is tell some of the younger folks "my mistakes", hopefully they don't have to learn everyone one of them on their own.
    Might even have more "success" when it all over.
    Shoot where may of the organs sit.
    Try to realize a head shot or a spine shot is a "very small area".
    Better odds around the shoulder.

  4. #94
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    I'm not gonna say wether i do or don't take headshots....if you do for your own reasons....fine by me, if you don't for your own reasons....fine by me

    However, I will throw something else out there to think about......lets look at a typical 180 accubond going 2800 fps out of a 30-06....lets say 300 yd shot, not what most would consider difficult or unreasonable. Now lets throw in a 10 mph full value wind.
    "IF" you have a wind meter, and actually KNOW the wind speed....how many folks in the bush know how much that bullet is going to drift at 300 yds? my sense of things is most folks don't think environmetals matter much under 300 yds. Well that bullet is going to drift 6" at 300 yds and be in the air just under 1/2 a second, when you add in the time it takes for the shot to break etc, lets say 1 second total from commiting to the shot, breaking it off and the bullet arriving. As stated above, a lot can go wrong with a little movement on the animals part....lets say the critter leans forward 6" just before taking a step, and there is a sudden lull in the wind as you break the shot.....you're now 12" off intended point of aim.
    It would be quite rare i think to find any but the most seasoned/practiced shooters that can hold groups to 1 moa or less at 300 yds in a hunting situation from a field rest....more likely 2 moa is realistic, so roughly 6-7"....so potentially thats another 3" off your point of aim....we're now up to 15" from intended point of aim.... thats guts or brisket with no vitals on a deer sized critter....
    This is to say nothing of the folks who sighted in their rifle in +20 C and are now deer hunting at -15 C in november and have no idea if/how much the muzzle velocity is reduced with that temperature swing. Or they sighted in at home on the coast at sea level, and are now hunting the mountains at 5000 ft....what does that do to your particular loads drops at distance???

    Anyway, point of all my rambling....crap can happen every single time we touch off a shot. whether we are talking about a 50 yd headshot, or a 300 yd broadside, and I think where most folks get into trouble, is because they are

    1. not honest with themselves about their shooting ability in the field with the adrenaline pumping
    2. they DO NOT NOW exactly what their bullet trajectory will do in different conditions and at different distances

    so....is there a big difference between trying to hit a 3" target zone at 50 yds vs a 12" target zone at 300 yds when ALL factors are taken into consideration???

    I will leave that to each individual to answer for themselves.....
    "Do not go where the path may lead,
    go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
    Emerson

  5. #95
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    Where is the like button??

  6. #96
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaseman View Post
    Too funny!
    Done any 500+ yard shots on animals lately?? Of course you can control the forces of nature there, right!?

    I am not the one on a high horse nor the one insecure!

    Just stating what I have done with no issues. To each their own!
    You are the funny one, immediately you change this into a personal deal when All I did was quote your sentence "You need to where your rifle shoots and your own capabilities. Period.". I was arguing with the fact that you say Your above statement is "PERIOD" or in other words that is all there is to it, when I stated there were other factors involved than knowing your rifle and your ability when really there is much more involved in any shot than that. Of course those are a factor but not the End of story or as you said PERIOD. You chose to take it and make it personal. As for 500 yd shots, yes that is my self imposed max for living critters(well except for varmints) and I acknowledge and accept the risks and evaluate each separately before shooting, but you are comparing crab apples= O to watermelons= O, when comparing targets. Leave the drama at "home" and discuss the issue like an adult in case you missed the point the discussion at least on my part is there are far more factors in play than knowing your rifle and ability. I for one would have been glad to have that discussion with you civilly but apparently you prefer to drag up old animosity from another place and time and make it personal. Chill man you will be much happier.
    Last edited by Foxton Gundogs; 09-25-2019 at 08:17 AM.
    "BORN TO HUNT"
    Foxton's Cuervo Gold "KEELA" Oct. 2004-June 2017. Always in my blind and my heart.

  7. #97
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    Apr 2016
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    3,381

    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    One thing I don't think anyone can argue with is that we owe it to the animal to dispatch it in a humanely and effective manner as possible.

    Having said that I have to question the boiler room only guys how many times they've had to shoot their animal twice? I know on most of the kills I've been on it has taken 2. One to anchor it and the other to dispatch it.

  8. #98
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    Jun 2007
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    If you ever removed a deer brain from its skull you'd realize how small the target is. I am not a good enough shot to reliably hit it from respectable distances under field conditions. I will not take head shots. Saying that I do take neck shots with buckshot.

  9. #99
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by willyqbc View Post

    However, I will throw something else out there to think about......lets look at a typical 180 accubond going 2800 fps out of a 30-06....lets say 300 yd shot, not what most would consider difficult or unreasonable. Now lets throw in a 10 mph full value wind.
    "IF" you have a wind meter, and actually KNOW the wind speed....how many folks in the bush know how much that bullet is going to drift at 300 yds? my sense of things is most folks don't think environmetals matter much under 300 yds. Well that bullet is going to drift 6" at 300 yds and be in the air just under 1/2 a second, when you add in the time it takes for the shot to break etc, lets say 1 second total from commiting to the shot, breaking it off and the bullet arriving. As stated above, a lot can go wrong with a little movement on the animals part....lets say the critter leans forward 6" just before taking a step, and there is a sudden lull in the wind as you break the shot.....you're now 12" off intended point of aim.
    It would be quite rare i think to find any but the most seasoned/practiced shooters that can hold groups to 1 moa or less at 300 yds in a hunting situation from a field rest....more likely 2 moa is realistic, so roughly 6-7"....so potentially thats another 3" off your point of aim....we're now up to 15" from intended point of aim.... thats guts or brisket with no vitals on a deer sized critter....

    Actually, in that scenario, at 3500’ elevation and 10*C you would be 2.3” of drift and a 0.36 second TOF with a 10.6mph full value wind at 300 yards.... Just sayin’.


  10. #100
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    Re: Headshots? Take them or no?

    Oh Boy.

    Glad I'm not in this bun fight.

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