Headshots? Take them or no?

[Wild one]

Nothing wrong with boiler room and I doubt most need 2 shots choosing to do so. Personally don’t find the need for a follow up often but will take one given a good opportunity. Dropped animals on the spot with boiler room shots expecially when paying attention to angles and exit. Moose( probably elk never taken on)can be an exception but have even seen them drop on the spot with a simple chest shot no bone breaking

A good clean kill can be done in many ways and I believe in being versatile

[Bugle M In]

One thing I don't think anyone can argue with is that we owe it to the animal to dispatch it in a humanely and effective manner as possible.

Having said that I have to question the boiler room only guys how many times they've had to shoot their animal twice? I know on most of the kills I've been on it has taken 2. One to anchor it and the other to dispatch it.

Lets see,

I took my 1st ever elk with a straight on shot (yes stupid) at 335 yards and literally took out the windpipe (97% of it).
That bull ran 350+yards, and a couple of the shots in between due to him running almost towards me (???) weren't great.
And then the 4 th shot went thru the heart, but still took another 15 seconds for it to die.
I have taken multiple elk where the shot takes out the whole bottom small section of the heart, and none died instantly.
Usually destroys the liver in a million pieces, and yet they still ran.
But then took another bull, running across in front of me, with another shot to the heart and liver, all at once and it was dead before it hit
the ground.

For me, rarely has the animal dropped to the ground dead, even though I wouldn't have done anything different with the shot.
Not sure why they don't die instantaneously? at times, but only twice have I had to put a bullet behind the ears.
(which I do ASAP, I don't wait to see if it will die first)
And one of those shots behind the ear was from a "neck shot", so that should say something right there.

Excitement/Adrenaline have a lot to do with hunting/shooting compared to the range, conditions and rests also.
All I recommend is that if an animal falls and hasn't died, that we end it quick as we can.
I had one friend who took a deer who hadn't expired, and he wanted to just wait as he knew it would (I knew it would too), but just couldn't
accept him lighting up a cigarette and wait for that to happen.
I took care of it for him! and then had a few choice words. (that's what friends do!)

[willyqbc]

Actually, in that scenario, at 3500’ elevation and 10*C you would be 2.3” of drift and a 0.36 second TOF with a 10.6mph full value wind at 300 yards.... Just sayin’.

Kodiak, sincerely no disrespect intended, but not sure where you are getting your numbers.....using Brian Litz's BC's for the 180 accubond, two different ballistics calculators are giving me 5.6" and 6.0".....

anyway.... the actual numbers aren't important here, it was just an example to try and illustrate that to a shooter uneducated to the effect "environmentals" can have on bullet flight, a 300 yd broadside shot could be just as risky as a 50 yd head shot where environmental effects will be almost nil.

also to try and illustrate that as distance increases, and "field conditions" are factored in, shooter error and group size is very often not a linear relationship, just because a shooter can do 1" @100yds from the bench, that almost never translates to 3" @ 300 in the field....more likely 6" or more.

Point still being, you need to KNOW what your load will do under different conditions and at different distances to minimize your margin for error when the critters in the scope and your bloods runnin hot! Its amazing how many folks seem to think their rifle is a lazer death ray that just magically hits where the crosshairs are regardless of conditions, distance, uphiil/downhill etc, etc

again, not advocating one way or another as far as headshots go....but in some ways, there are less variables that can bite an inexperienced shooter when trying to hit the 3" 50 yd target vs the 12" 300 yd target

JMO

[KodiakHntr]

Kodiak, sincerely no disrespect intended, but not sure where you are getting your numbers.....using Brian Litz's BC's for the 180 accubond, two different ballistics calculators are giving me 5.6" and 6.0".....

anyway.... the actual numbers aren't important here, it was just an example to try and illustrate that to a shooter uneducated to the effect "environmentals" can have on bullet flight, a 300 yd broadside shot could be just as risky as a 50 yd head shot where environmental effects will be almost nil.

also to try and illustrate that as distance increases, and "field conditions" are factored in, shooter error and group size is very often not a linear relationship, just because a shooter can do 1" @100yds from the bench, that almost never translates to 3" @ 300 in the field....more likely 6" or more.

Point still being, you need to KNOW what your load will do under different conditions and at different distances to minimize your margin for error when the critters in the scope and your bloods runnin hot! Its amazing how many folks seem to think their rifle is a lazer death ray that just magically hits where the crosshairs are regardless of conditions, distance, uphiil/downhill etc, etc

again, not advocating one way or another as far as headshots go....but in some ways, there are less variables that can bite an inexperienced shooter when trying to hit the 3" 50 yd target vs the 12" 300 yd target

JMO

None taken. I just ran your numbers through Ballistic AE (formerly jbm).

But I agree with pretty much everything you put there. From what I witness, not many folks shoot as well as they think they do under pressure.

[835]

Oh Boy.

Glad I'm not in this bun fight.

oh come on jump in! its always fun!

[westcoast meds]

All depends on the situation . But if I feel good about the shot, have a rest and distance is reasonable I will most always take the head shot.

[fearnodeer]

Well done 4 heads shots with success on all of them, to me it is all about a comfort zone, how I am feeling at the time and this goes for long distance shots as well, these days I am liking a shoulder shot on bears for sure, shot the last 2 that way and both dropped dead on the spot.

[Leaseman]

You are the funny one, immediately you change this into a personal deal when All I did was quote your sentence "You need to where your rifle shoots and your own capabilities. Period.". I was arguing with the fact that you say Your above statement is "PERIOD" or in other words that is all there is to it, when I stated there were other factors involved than knowing your rifle and your ability when really there is much more involved in any shot than that. Of course those are a factor but not the End of story or as you said PERIOD. You chose to take it and make it personal. As for 500 yd shots, yes that is my self imposed max for living critters(well except for varmints) and I acknowledge and accept the risks and evaluate each separately before shooting, but you are comparing crab apples= O to watermelons= O, when comparing targets. Leave the drama at "home" and discuss the issue like an adult in case you missed the point the discussion at least on my part is there are far more factors in play than knowing your rifle and ability. I for one would have been glad to have that discussion with you civilly but apparently you prefer to drag up old animosity from another place and time and make it personal. Chill man you will be much happier.

Oh, I am very happy!!!

Always enjoy some of the drama here...!

Have a good Day FG.....I think you need a few of those!

[Foxton Gundogs]

I'm done with your drama Mike, keep it on your own site. If you want to discuss my original statement that there is more to any rifle shot than "knowing your rifle and your ability" that outside forces can have an effect on even the most perfect shot, fine, do it like an adult you know point counter point. If not then save your typing finger.

[SSG-man]

Buckshot close range incl in this debate ?