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Thread: BC moose hunting history

  1. #91
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Maybe I'll stop patronizing those businesses I know are owned by Indians. Maybe I'll stop patronizing those businesses that hire Indians. And when people ask me why I'm refusing to do business with Indians, I'll tell them the truth. It's the only legal means available to me that I can think of to protect my heritage and rail against a pre 11th century game management strategy practiced by Indians and supported/sponsored by government and the judicial system.

    Whatever you do, if it benefits and involves Indians, stop doing it. It's that, or reconcile the fact your children aren't going to be hunting when they're your age.
    Last edited by 180grainer; 10-18-2019 at 07:17 AM.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

  2. #92
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Quote Originally Posted by chilcotin hillbilly View Post
    so here I am and still undecided on how to approach this issue.

    The TNG moose round table sounded like a good idea at first glance. With everyone from BCWF, GOABC, Cattleman's, lots of FN representation,BCTA, forest licensee representatives and piles of government from regional biologists, regional staffers, and several from Victoria with about 60 people ready to fix the moose problem.
    The first couple meetings where constructive setting the level of importance of different moose populations triggers and effects.
    The number one concern was predation
    Access, habitat enhancement, road deactivation and even responsible unlicensed harvest was on the table.

    Once the list was established Terms of Reference for the round table was worked on, that is when I realized the the whole process ws a waste of time.
    There was even talk about paying elders who wanted to drop in to the meetings and hear what was going on. This really pissed me off as out of a large room of people there was only about four of use that weren't getting paid to be there. With the TOF finished and promises of more meetings to really start work on developing timelines for the work on the ground to start.................the round table ended.

    Two things happened to end the round table.

    The TNG and Alexanderia Band asked for reduced licensed harvest in some areas, up to 80% reduction saying they needed the bull moose for their own needs. Government folded like cheap suits and reduced non resident quota and LEH opportunity by 80%. Putting several outfitters out of business and changing a lot of peoples hunting plans for region 5.

    Signing of the MOU with the CO service put the final nail in the coffin for the round table. Just because the TNG claims they will not kill cow moose (even thought they admit they have several members that will not follow the MOU) this was the trigger for government to reduce licensed hunting.

    This past summer I invited myself to a TNG moose meeting in Redstone. It was disgusting what went on. The TNG biologist stood up at the front and explained the MOU with the CO's and how it removed licensed hunters from the landscape. Put up your hand if you two would like to see less hunting pressure on your land!.
    The only question now was whether Tsi Del Del wanted to included mule deer does into the MOU as well just like Xeni Gwet’in did.
    It was unanimous that does would still be hunted and there was no appetite to stop shooting does.
    Of course I voiced my opinion as the uninvited guest and reminded everyone in the room that private properties and no shooting zone rules need to be respected. Once again I was told they cannot control their members.

    Just two days ago I chased a couple of band members out of the Tatlayoko Valley who where hunting out of their new GMC crew cab looking for deer. These where not punks but a couple in their 60's.

    Do I see a future in the Chilcotin working together collectively? Not until we get government to quit pandering to FN.

    On a better note Xeni Gwet’in did draft their own wildlife laws, in it is some great stuff.
    No does or cows to be shot.
    4 mule deer point bucks only
    3 point whitetail bucks
    No night hunting at all.
    Fair chase applies to everyone.

    That being said chief Jimmy admits he can not control everyone.

    I wish I had better news.

    Cheers,
    CB

    Thanks Doug, I thought as much. I read the writing on the wall when that lawyer lady gave her little speech at the end of the first get together. At least I can keep them off my postage stamp in this province.

  3. #93
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Quote Originally Posted by 180grainer View Post
    Maybe I'll stop patronizing those businesses I know are owned by Indians. Maybe I'll stop patronizing those businesses that hire Indians. And when people ask me why I'm refusing to do business with Indians, I'll tell them the truth. It's the only legal means available to me that I can think of to protect my heritage and rail against a pre 11th century game management strategy practiced by Indians and supported/sponsored by government and the judicial system.

    Whatever you do, if it benefits and involves Indians, stop doing it. It's that, or reconcile the fact your children aren't going to be hunting when they're your age.
    Agreed^^^^^

    Another sad reality is that its going to look alot like this over the entire province, and maybe all of Canada. Interesting to know who was involved with the giveaways, my mind begins to wander when I think......I wonder if there was any corruption?
    or.... who got stroked/bought/caught/blown during the fake process...but we know it was legit...right?

  4. #94
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    First of all, I would like to state that I am not here to argue for one side or the other and I would just like to educate some fellow Canadians on such a controversial topic. I have tried to educate on this topic numerous times before to no avail. I recently watched this series on the Discovery channel called "Why we hate". It was interesting to see why we hate and how humanity has used it as a source of power to sway peoples opinions. Politics is just one example of this.
    It is no coincidence that "Indians" were classified as "different" then the rest of Canadians by the government. This has been done in other parts of the world with the same reaction.
    You split people into separate groups and then you give one "special privileges" over the other and "Bam" you have Hate.
    Not to mention that these laws ended up doing nasty things to the Indigenous people it made a divide and different classes of people. Same with the Japanese Canadians during the War.
    These reactions are primal and foolproof for the people in authority. They get the reactions they want.
    The best way to overcome our problems is to learn to work together and educate ourselves. Once we know what really is happening we can start to work towards resolutions to the problem.
    Most of us, regardless of what color our skin is, want the same thing. Fairness and equality and the ability to hunt in our own country. If the government really wanted this too, we would be at a solution to this by now.
    It is obvious that EVERYONE should be reporting for conservation purposes and there should be regulations even for FN. I know this is going on with fisheries and I would hope it is at least happening somewhere in the province with hunting as well.
    I urge others to watch the 6 part series "Why we hate" if they are able to as well as do some research on Indigenous people for this area to gain a better understanding. We all know "knowledge is power" and in this day and age, information is very easy to find if you look for it. The internet is a good start but there are many local people around that would probably offer their assistance if you were sincere in finding solutions to many of the problems we are facing. IMHO.

  5. #95
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Hmmmm easy peasy..one step solution..

    We are ALL equal...period.
    However indians dont want to give up all the $$$ all the advantages..all the a$$ kissing..
    Anything wrong with equal edgar ?...however it would mean giving up 5 of the 6 dollars currently forked out.
    Nice to see the proposed changes by some..now to see how much gets implemented.
    Steven

  6. #96
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Edgar, I'll lay-out the core problems around this issue, as I see em and would like to hear how you would propose we solve them

    1. FN "rights" are constitutionally protected and are garaunteed to the INDIVIDUAL. It matters not what a band council may agree to with gov't and stakeholders, any INDIVIDUAL FN can still go out and do whatever he/she pleases

    2. agreements with individual bands are not worth the paper they are written on. I've seen this over and over again in the forest industry. As an example...slocan enters into an agreement with the local band council to buy some of "their" timber....slocan then goes out and spends money on timber cruising, road building etc. Time comes to harvest the timber.....but wait, theres been an election and we now have a new band council, who promptly tears up any existing contracts, gets taken to court, slocan told by courts...sorry, under new management, agreements with last band council don't apply

    3. Why would FN ever come to the table and "negotiate" with stakeholders....they currently hold all the cards and any compromise would involve them giving something up

    4. The Gov't bureaucrats DONT WANT TO SEE ANY RESOLUTION!!! Department of indian Affairs, or whatever they are calling it these days has a budget that rivals healthcare. The very people who should be working toward solutions....will find themselves unemployed if we ever truly resolved the issue once and for all....first rule of gov't, don't shoot the goose that lays the golden egg.

    So please, tell me, how the hell do we ever find a middle ground that everyone can live with, when the "go betweens" (govt) have no interest in resolving anything, and one side (FN) has absolutely no motivation to "meet us in the middle". As much as my wife likes to think so, COMPROMISE is NOT one side giving up everything to the other.

    Respectfully
    Chris
    "Do not go where the path may lead,
    go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
    Emerson

  7. #97
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    690

    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Quote Originally Posted by willyqbc View Post
    Edgar, I'll lay-out the core problems around this issue, as I see em and would like to hear how you would propose we solve them

    1. FN "rights" are constitutionally protected and are garaunteed to the INDIVIDUAL. It matters not what a band council may agree to with gov't and stakeholders, any INDIVIDUAL FN can still go out and do whatever he/she pleases

    2. agreements with individual bands are not worth the paper they are written on. I've seen this over and over again in the forest industry. As an example...slocan enters into an agreement with the local band council to buy some of "their" timber....slocan then goes out and spends money on timber cruising, road building etc. Time comes to harvest the timber.....but wait, theres been an election and we now have a new band council, who promptly tears up any existing contracts, gets taken to court, slocan told by courts...sorry, under new management, agreements with last band council don't apply

    3. Why would FN ever come to the table and "negotiate" with stakeholders....they currently hold all the cards and any compromise would involve them giving something up

    4. The Gov't bureaucrats DONT WANT TO SEE ANY RESOLUTION!!! Department of indian Affairs, or whatever they are calling it these days has a budget that rivals healthcare. The very people who should be working toward solutions....will find themselves unemployed if we ever truly resolved the issue once and for all....first rule of gov't, don't shoot the goose that lays the golden egg.

    So please, tell me, how the hell do we ever find a middle ground that everyone can live with, when the "go betweens" (govt) have no interest in resolving anything, and one side (FN) has absolutely no motivation to "meet us in the middle". As much as my wife likes to think so, COMPROMISE is NOT one side giving up everything to the other.

    Respectfully
    Chris
    It starts by erasing that line in the sand and understanding our similarities more then our differences. Once we are both on the same side we then can start to force them to make changes.
    We have grown up understanding where we stand and it makes it difficult for us to think otherwise.
    I have said before that in order for Indigenous people to heal from the after effects of colonialism they will need to go back to cultural idealism and philosophies. This takes time.
    Once we are all reading the same book with the same language, things will start to work itself out.
    I have also said before that the Indian Act needs to go and the country needs to work out something once and for all and end the different group status which is part of the problem.
    I know its not a simple solution but its something that has to start somewhere and by somebody. I am willing to work with anyone who wants equality and fairness for everyone even if it means I lose certain privileges in the process. There are much more important things in life then that anyways.

  8. #98
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Quote Originally Posted by edgar11 View Post
    It starts by erasing that line in the sand and understanding our similarities more then our differences. Once we are both on the same side we then can start to force them to make changes. Sorry, that's BS. The US tried that approach with China. Remember? Engage China and it will become democratic. What happened? The exact opposite. Large American corporations like Google are working actively with the Communist government of China to control its people. America got sold down the road to cheap labor and easy access to shit radios. It has been pointed out. The Indian has no reason what so ever to actively seek common ground. The Constitution, which normally ensures equal treatment and protection under the law for "all people", has enshrined the Indian as some how special. Better than us and deserving of special and preferential treatment. The Supreme Court has no choice but to follow that document. We have been phuked by a closet Communist "Trudeau Sr." and the UN.
    We have grown up understanding where we stand and it makes it difficult for us to think otherwise.
    I have said before that in order for Indigenous people to heal from the after effects of colonialism they will need to go back to cultural idealism and philosophies. This takes time. This is also BS. The Indigenous people have no more of a right to "heal" than the Irish. How about the Kurds? How about English who inhabited the coast line and within reach of the Norse, or the Millions of survivors of Pol Pot? Right Phuking now, political prisoners in China are having their organs harvested by the "State" for profit, and there are actually re-education camps for Muslims. What happened to the FN was awful. But no more awful than what they were doing to themselves and we as "human beings" have been doing to ourselves since we crawled out of the swamp. It is absolutely disgusting to accentuate Indian suffering over the suffering of others and bestow special rights and privileges because of it. And that's exactly what our Constitution does when it comes to the Indian. You actually have to truncate, not only the historical axis, but the geographical axis, (if there is such a thing) to come to the conclusions the drafters of our Constitution did. That some how, "these" people should be treated "this" way, and everyone else "be treated" that way.....
    Once we are all reading the same book with the same language, things will start to work itself out.
    I have also said before that the Indian Act needs to go and the country needs to work out something once and for all and end the different group status which is part of the problem. Sounds really nice. Can you point to any type of examples of progress......any what so ever, that we're actually moving in that direction? Or are there lots of examples where we're cementing this ideology, (cause that's what it is) into reality with these modern day treaties etc?
    I know its not a simple solution but its something that has to start somewhere and by somebody. Yea, I'm somebody, not patronizing any Indian establishment or business. Be respectful in those circumstances where you're asked to explain yourself. Remember, common sense "is" on your side. We've been fed a bad meal and it's time to puke it back up.I am willing to work with anyone who wants equality and fairness for everyone even if it means I lose certain privileges in the process. There are much more important things in life then that anyways.
    .................................................. .................................................. ..........
    Last edited by 180grainer; 10-18-2019 at 09:51 PM.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

  9. #99
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    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Is race a social construct? Or does white privileged exist?
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

  10. #100
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    17,156

    Re: BC moose hunting history

    Islam is right about women.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

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