Shooter or not?

[Bubbacanuck]

Find another hunter with an anterless tag and shoot both the doe & fawn

[wideopenthrottle]

Might not want to put too much faith in BC’s management keeping track of buck vs doe ratio’s. Many MU’s can go a long time without a proper count. The recent reduction in annual mule deer limit was do to many MU’s falling short on bucks resulting in poor ratios.

Unfortanatly BC does not have proper funding to collect solid data on its game populations often resulting in poor management. This is part of the reason many BC game populations are on the decline

A lot of BC’s management is political/social with a little science thrown in

buck to doe ratios are considered on the basis of total numbers (carrying capacity) so if the area can carry 1000 deer through the winter and you want a buck to doe ratio of 1:9 that would mean you want 900 does and 100 bucks.....if there were way more than 900 does many LEH tags would be issued....if there were less than 900 does, but more than 100 bucks, the GOS on bucks or 2 pointers might be extended to get the ratio down but it is less important than ensuring you do not exceed carrying capacity on a bad winter...if there is not enough food for the deer, they all eat until the food is mostly gone and then there is mass die off, poor fawn recruitment and easier pickings for preds….

[Wild one]

buck to doe ratios are considered on the basis of total numbers (carrying capacity) so if the area can carry 1000 deer through the winter and you want a buck to doe ratio of 1:9 that would mean you want 900 does and 100 bucks.....if there were way more than 900 does many LEH tags would be issued....if there were less than 900 does, but more than 100 bucks, the GOS on bucks or 2 pointers might be extended to get the ratio down but it is less important than ensuring you do not exceed carrying capacity on a bad winter...if there is not enough food for the deer, they all eat until the food is mostly gone and then there is mass die off, poor fawn recruitment and easier pickings for preds….

The main point of my post you quoted was that BC lacks solid data on its populations because of lack of funding and long periods between counts in many MUs.

Well aware of how buck vs doe ratios work and carrying capacity. BC actually has a target goal of 20%( memory might be off could be 25% max) which is actually low compared to most states and provinces. Many places are running target goals ranging from 30% to over 65%. 1:9 would be a horrible ratio this can result in population decline example Colorado. Another issue acknowledged in states/provinces out side of BC is the negative impact low buck ratio has on the timing of a fawns birth shortening its growing season before going into winter lower fawn survival rates.

BC is not a risk of reaching carrying capacity in majority of the province and basically a mute point here. Some like to flogg the theory of keeping low numbers will prevent winter kill on bad winters. If you research winter kill there is no way to prevent winter kill. You can manage higher game numbers and have a boom bust cycle according to winters or you can keep steady low numbers and limited loss on poor winters. Either way you will experience fluctuations.

I have beaten both these issues to death in the past with examples from other provinces/states and the different theories/management plans used regarding them. Too much typing to repeat so not going to bother and frankly not my problem anymore

I have said it before hunters need to expand their research beyond what gets handed to them and look beyond BCs borders because many states/provinces invest a lot more time/money than BC every has

[wideopenthrottle]

sure...not implying i know more than you, just stating what i do know about the theory of managing game. Again, you would know a lot more about the specifics of what is actually done here and it is important to discuss it for the benefit of others that may not have even gotten past the idea of stockpiling deer...as i have been a student of the outdoors my whole life, i know Canadian winters are a great limiter of survival for many reasons...direct and indirect

[Wild one]

sure...not implying i know more than you, just stating what i do know about the theory of managing game. Again, you would know a lot more about the specifics of what is actually done here and it is important to discuss it for the benefit of others that may not have even gotten past the idea of stockpiling deer...as i have been a student of the outdoors my whole life, i know Canadian winters are a great limiter of survival for many reasons...direct and indirect

I am not an expert by any means I have just had the chance to discuss things with knowledgeable people and researched the subjects out of personal interest. Unfortunately it only lead my to go WTF with many of BC deer issues. Even more so when people have hen pick facts on these subjects to push their opinion/agenda

Not trying to pick at you others have just annoyed me on these subjects

[wideopenthrottle]

I am not an expert by any means I have just had the chance to discuss things with knowledgeable people and researched the subjects out of personal interest. Unfortunately it only lead my to go WTF with many of BC deer issues. Even more so when people have hen pick facts on these subjects to push their opinion/agenda

Not trying to pick at you others have just annoyed me on these subjects

no worries...and my 9:1 ratio was just for making the math simple heheheh

[Rieber]

Shoot 'er Jacob

[TyTy]

I put in and drew a region 3 doe tag this year (first doe tag) and will be taking the family out for this hunt. This one will be all about the freezer for us.

[russm86]

Think of it this way, IF biologists knew that this years fawns were still completely dependant on the doe and were worried about them surviving then they would have the wording in the regs like bears, making it illegal to take a doe with a fawn... Due to the fact that there is no such reg then I'd say it really isn't an issue and doesn't matter so is entirely up to you. Any does I've seen/shot come November had already stopped producing milk and weened the fawns. The fawns will just group up with other deer anyways. Come to think of it, with all my time in the bush and all the trail cam footage I don't think I've ever seen a doe letting a fawn suckle in the fall, August at the latest maybe. Anyone else seen fawns suckling into hunting season, especially late season when most of the doe draws/opening are?

[Bubbacanuck]

Think of it this way, IF biologists knew that this years fawns were still completely dependant on the doe and were worried about them surviving then they would have the wording in the regs like bears, making it illegal to take a doe with a fawn... Due to the fact that there is no such reg then I'd say it really isn't an issue and doesn't matter so is entirely up to you. Any does I've seen/shot come November had already stopped producing milk and weened the fawns. The fawns will just group up with other deer anyways. Come to think of it, with all my time in the bush and all the trail cam footage I don't think I've ever seen a doe letting a fawn suckle in the fall, August at the latest maybe. Anyone else seen fawns suckling into hunting season, especially late season when most of the doe draws/opening are?

Last year in a zone with an anterless season, I took a doe not realizing a fawn was bedded down. My buddy took the fawn. When I was field dressing the doe she was still producing milk...so I assume it was still possibly suckling?