Question for the experts!?!?

[pro 111]

Hey guys its been awhile since Ive been on here hope everyone is doing well! I have a question I know its likely been bounced around in the past, but I cant wrap my head around it and I know there are some biologists on this site. If the mule deer populations and the moose populations is certain area's are struggling as much as we are led to believe they are..... then WHY are we still giving out female LEH draws for those species??? IMO it is 100% a cash grab??? I have shot a few females early on in my hunting career but I have made a decision over the past few years to stop shooting females and I wont put in LEH for them, it seems completely counter productive to me to shoot the life givers especially if we are in a situation where populations are down..... someone smarter than me please explain the rationale behind this??

I would have to agree with you in both aspects. I believe these LEH draws are a cash grab . .How much of this money goes back into science . Or sustaining wildlife in BC. It goes right back into upgrading street lights in Victoria and shit just like it. Use the states for an example. So many more hunters. Yet they have very healthy game populations all over. The majority of tag money and even portions of gun purchases go straight back into direct management of the wildlife.
I also believe its a bunch of BS to be harvesting cow and calf moose or any female in areas that are way down on there numbers.. You dont have to be a biologist to figure that out.

[pro 111]

Dont get me wrong. BC is the best place on earth to live if you like hunting multiple species . but i think lately to much is just taken for granted , and we are loosing our wildlife at faster rates than all of us hunters are really willing to admit.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Dont get me wrong. BC is the best place on earth to live if you like hunting multiple species . but i think lately to much is just taken for granted , and we are loosing our wildlife at faster rates than all of us hunters are really willing to admit.

I'm Agreeing with you ! Theres a LOT of GREAT country out there FULL of Feed and Shelter with out many animals ! Where the Hell are they ? RJ

[j270wsm]

I do understand what your saying about HIGH numbers of doe/cow tags given out for areas with low populations, but your example of elk in reg 4 isn't an area with high cow tags. 3-10yrs ago.....it would have been an area with high tags.

reg 4 cow elk leh info

2014-15 - 7545 applications for 294 tags.... $47,835
2017-18 - 6154 applications for 33 tags …… $39,016
2018-19 - 2934 applications for 33 tgs ……. $18,601

2014-15 there were 95 tags(1358 applicants) and 110 youth/senior tags given out for 4-23A. These 205 tags would account for 54.5%($10,213) of all money generated from reg 4 cow tags this yr.

personally I wouldnt call $18,601 a money grab!

[curt]

You are absolutely correct they opened up huge numbers of cow draws now they have pulled back to basically none because the population is on a major decline!? So what does that tell me ittells me shooting the cows negatively impacted the herds when coupled with high predation? Think about this 294 cows how many elk could potentially be born based on those numbers in the 4 years since 2015we are talking potentially 1000+ elk when you start factoring in calves of calves and so on!? Just my opinion don’t go getting your feathers all ruffled if you are a female shooter I get it just not for me anymore!�� QUOTE=j270wsm;2101406]

I do understand what your saying about HIGH numbers of doe/cow tags given out for areas with low populations, but your example of elk in reg 4 isn't an area with high cow tags. 3-10yrs ago.....it would have been an area with high tags.

reg 4 cow elk leh info

2014-15 - 7545 applications for 294 tags.... $47,835
2017-18 - 6154 applications for 33 tags …… $39,016
2018-19 - 2934 applications for 33 tgs ……. $18,601

2014-15 there were 95 tags(1358 applicants) and 110 youth/senior tags given out for 4-23A. These 205 tags would account for 54.5%($10,213) of all money generated from reg 4 cow tags this yr.

personally I wouldnt call $18,601 a money grab![/QUOTE]

[250 sav]

Hey guys its been awhile since Ive been on here hope everyone is doing well! I have a question I know its likely been bounced around in the past, but I cant wrap my head around it and I know there are some biologists on this site. If the mule deer populations and the moose populations is certain area's are struggling as much as we are led to believe they are..... then WHY are we still giving out female LEH draws for those species??? IMO it is 100% a cash grab??? I have shot a few females early on in my hunting career but I have made a decision over the past few years to stop shooting females and I wont put in LEH for them, it seems completely counter productive to me to shoot the life givers especially if we are in a situation where populations are down..... someone smarter than me please explain the rationale behind this??

Because if they cancel anything we currently have they can not reinstate it without the permission of a group. Ex. The region 5 bull moose was closed and a few year's latter the biologist wanted to open a general season for spike fork like region 3 but the band's said no

[adriaticum]

One thing that kind of makes me wonder, is that people who don't win draws, consistently don't win draws.
People who win draws, consistently win draws.
Am I out to lunch?

[robert05]

No your not out to lunch but I believe it has to do with the odds for that particular draw that is put in for. My son and I usually get a draw but we pick a draw that has favourable odds. This year the odds are 0.7:1 and it is a November
moose hunt. Is it the best area and time, no but it is a moose draw.
Both sons and I have also been putting for the Buffalo LEH for 15 years with no luck.

[rocksteady]

I do understand what your saying about HIGH numbers of doe/cow tags given out for areas with low populations, but your example of elk in reg 4 isn't an area with high cow tags. 3-10yrs ago.....it would have been an area with high tags.

reg 4 cow elk leh info

2014-15 - 7545 applications for 294 tags.... $47,835
2017-18 - 6154 applications for 33 tags …… $39,016
2018-19 - 2934 applications for 33 tgs ……. $18,601

2014-15 there were 95 tags(1358 applicants) and 110 youth/senior tags given out for 4-23A. These 205 tags would account for 54.5%($10,213) of all money generated from reg 4 cow tags this yr.

personally I wouldnt call $18,601 a money grab!

One thing you are forgetting is there was 2 or maybe 3 years that they had an "any antlerless" season for 10 days in the main trench of the Rocky Mountains, to thin the herds to appease the ranchers. It would not show up in your stats for leh, but it had a HUGE impact on populations.

[Petros65]

Very simple answer to your question.

The ideal wilderness ratio for game is 1-1. Does cannot create more deer by themselves (its takes 2 to tango - biology 101).

Every single bit of research ever conducted indicates that not shooting does has zero effect on population.

The archaic idea that hunters must not shoot does is not based in any reality (probably comes from the Puritanical periods in the USA where females were considered lesser to males)

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/shoot...tead-of-bucks/ (makes for a good read)


Then as always look to Southern Africa countries (Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, South Africa, Zimbabwe)---- they hunt everything equally and they have the most successful hunting models yet devised.