Question for the experts!?!?

[curt]

It’s not really s loaded question you could apply it to every region for one species or another in all honesty! Valid points for sure it just strikes me funny that they speak of mule deer issues to the point where the reduced the bag limit . moose declining in region 7-and 5 elk disappearing in the kootenays and mule deer out there as well , yet we still shoot females it’s just weird to me? Yes I know predators are a bigger issue but every female shot is probably dozens of animals that will never be born! I could be completely wrong that is why I asked the question funny how everyone get all fired up QUOTE=Bugle M In;2101178]Well, this is a loaded question.
Firstly, what areas are you talking about?, entire regions?, MU's or portions of either?

Where I hunt MD, I see a lot of Does every time, and actually probably see more the past few years then before.
But then, does that actually mean more are around?
Do I just hunt better now then before?

I don't doubt some who say MD appear to be down in the areas they hunt.
But then the next guy over in the next valley may not feel that way.

Truth is, we don't "micro manage" populations.
We have large Regions and even large MU's and many mu's inside that region.
The best we get to manage I suppose is inside an MU and even smaller thru Zones in LEH.
So, 3-31 might have lots of does in one corner while in the other part few.

Other thing is, there isn't a whole lot of counting going on out there by the ministry.

Last thing, and probably the most important one, is that I think some who complain about the LEH Does tend to think "Hunters" are the reason for the
"Decline" in #'s.
Where as those that don't concern themselves too much with Doe LEH feel that much of the issues are "other factors" causing decline, if at all.
Again, see above for their thoughts.

The truth is, I don't think the issue is hunters causing declines.
So, if that is true, and it is the other factors (not hunters) than why would limiting hunters "make a difference"??.
Stop hunters, yet the reason for the declines would continue.!!! (that simple)

Now, if you are in the other camp, and it's hunters causing the decline, than I have "1 question for you"!
Explain why after 40 years of more and more hunting restrictions and limitations and even seeing LEH for many species in many areas,
THAT once where open and GOS etc.
Why haven't the Game #'s Increased???
Think about it, we've done a good job of curbing hunters and their success rates all over the place, yet the Game still Declines!

Fix the real issues and I believe the numbers of MD will increase. (pretty simple).
Ban hunting completely if you want, but don't fix the real issues, and just keep watching the MD #'s "continue to drop".[/QUOTE]

[curt]

Why would it be hard to reinstate hunts they are the ones making the rules they can open and close seasons all they want. I think you are giving the ministry a lot more credit than they deserve. if you honestly think they care about your hunting opportunities well you are definitely a positive person good for you! I honestly believe they generate money off the backs of hunter while miss managing our wildlife. Do you even think they really know what’s going on out there I don’t it’s even been said on here they don’t often do counts because it’s costly!! Anyways it was just a question I was hoping for some scientific logic to help me understand QUOTE=boxhitch;2101269]Any idea why they put out a leh hunt op with only one tag?
Its so the hunt stays alive. They have reduced the permit numbers because the pop number target has been achieved and in some cases due to pressure. If they went to zero, the chance of reinstating the hunt when they wanted is far more difficult if not impossible. The permit numbers has to be kept fluid for proper management and to allow opportunity.
Any idea how much the entire LEH process generates for income?
But is has to be about the money , right[/QUOTE]

[Ourea]

A good percentage of MD doe tags are depredation permits to impact deer that are causing havoc on agriculture.
These permits are generally lower elevation and are extremely limited to the size of area the permit is valid.

[curt]

Ok I can see the logic they use there to justify it I still don’t agree but I get that

[curt]

I do appreciate your prospective but I was definitely surprised with your comment about the financial side of the house every decision made has a financial influence I very confident about that!
QUOTE=Walking Buffalo;2101265]You asked a question. I took the time to respond with several potential answers.

And this is all you care to address.

That says a lot.....[/QUOTE]

[curt]

My mom works very closely with the CO’s and has for 20 plus years every decision made is centred around money trust me on that!!

[Nimrod]

I've wondered about this as well but assumed they are trying to balance the buck doe ratio.
I think it still science based with good intentions however one of my favorite spots has had a very noticeable decline in Mulies in the last 10 years but the doe LEH is still disturbingly high. I think the bio's dont have the resources to really understand the population on a micro sub region level and the formula they use to extrapolate population inflated the count in small isolated populations, so applying a broad macro approach to authorizations is causing damage in these areas.

[338win mag]

It most likely wont be a question in anyone's mind as there wont be any LEH in the near future.

[hunterdon]

Great question curt. I'm probably not smarter than you but I'll pipe in anyways. LOL I agree with all that you said. When you look at the antlerless elk draws, 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 and so on a whole pile of regions, coupled with the numbers of applicants for these draws, the financial incentive is huge. One animal per unit will do squat for population control. You're bang on bud. It's all about the money.

Kind of would be nice if a poster can ask a question or make a comment without always having to be on the defensive. Just my 2 cents worth.

[mastercaster]

In regards to mule deer doe LEH draws, I don't quite understand why they've all but been eliminated in Region 8 because of declining mule deer numbers yet for this region they still have plenty of draws for youth hunters, even though they get a full month to harvest a buck compared to just 9 days for the other regions (3, 4, and 5) and no youth hunts in region 5, 6, or 7B.

I'm all for youth hunting but it does seem strange for the lengthier time frame for any buck in Region 8 comparatively when they get great opportunities (excellent odds) with the doe draw. Is this to help balance out doe/buck ratios even though Region 8 has declining mule deer numbers overall? I'm just a little surprised the youth hunt for any buck hasn't been reduced like what the other regions have historically had because of the generous LEH opportunities they've now been given.

Maybe there's just not enough youth hunters to make any difference at all when it comes to the numbers game??