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Thread: Question for the experts!?!?

  1. #1
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    Question for the experts!?!?

    Hey guys its been awhile since Ive been on here hope everyone is doing well! I have a question I know its likely been bounced around in the past, but I cant wrap my head around it and I know there are some biologists on this site. If the mule deer populations and the moose populations is certain area's are struggling as much as we are led to believe they are..... then WHY are we still giving out female LEH draws for those species??? IMO it is 100% a cash grab??? I have shot a few females early on in my hunting career but I have made a decision over the past few years to stop shooting females and I wont put in LEH for them, it seems completely counter productive to me to shoot the life givers especially if we are in a situation where populations are down..... someone smarter than me please explain the rationale behind this??

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  3. #2
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    Hey guys its been awhile since Ive been on here hope everyone is doing well! I have a question I know its likely been bounced around in the past, but I cant wrap my head around it and I know there are some biologists on this site. If the mule deer populations and the moose populations is certain area's are struggling as much as we are led to believe they are..... then WHY are we still giving out female LEH draws for those species??? IMO it is 100% a cash grab??? I have shot a few females early on in my hunting career but I have made a decision over the past few years to stop shooting females and I wont put in LEH for them, it seems completely counter productive to me to shoot the life givers especially if we are in a situation where populations are down..... someone smarter than me please explain the rationale behind this??

    This oughta be good!😂

  4. #3
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Cash grab? I didn't realize licences were so profitable for the govt...

    It might be that there is enough of a population to allow a small harvest while growing the population and maintaining sex ratios.
    It might be that maintaining a limited hunt is viable and has the benefit of maintaining the culture of hunting and the benefits it provides to people.
    It might be that hunting mortality is often compensatory with natural mortality, thus having a neutral effect.
    It might be that managers Want the population to drop. Ya know, starve the wolves into submission.....

  5. #4
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Well, this is a loaded question.
    Firstly, what areas are you talking about?, entire regions?, MU's or portions of either?

    Where I hunt MD, I see a lot of Does every time, and actually probably see more the past few years then before.
    But then, does that actually mean more are around?
    Do I just hunt better now then before?

    I don't doubt some who say MD appear to be down in the areas they hunt.
    But then the next guy over in the next valley may not feel that way.

    Truth is, we don't "micro manage" populations.
    We have large Regions and even large MU's and many mu's inside that region.
    The best we get to manage I suppose is inside an MU and even smaller thru Zones in LEH.
    So, 3-31 might have lots of does in one corner while in the other part few.

    Other thing is, there isn't a whole lot of counting going on out there by the ministry.

    Last thing, and probably the most important one, is that I think some who complain about the LEH Does tend to think "Hunters" are the reason for the
    "Decline" in #'s.
    Where as those that don't concern themselves too much with Doe LEH feel that much of the issues are "other factors" causing decline, if at all.
    Again, see above for their thoughts.

    The truth is, I don't think the issue is hunters causing declines.
    So, if that is true, and it is the other factors (not hunters) than why would limiting hunters "make a difference"??.
    Stop hunters, yet the reason for the declines would continue.!!! (that simple)

    Now, if you are in the other camp, and it's hunters causing the decline, than I have "1 question for you"!
    Explain why after 40 years of more and more hunting restrictions and limitations and even seeing LEH for many species in many areas,
    THAT once where open and GOS etc.
    Why haven't the Game #'s Increased???
    Think about it, we've done a good job of curbing hunters and their success rates all over the place, yet the Game still Declines!

    Fix the real issues and I believe the numbers of MD will increase. (pretty simple).
    Ban hunting completely if you want, but don't fix the real issues, and just keep watching the MD #'s "continue to drop".

  6. #5
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    Cash grab? I didn't realize licences were so profitable for the govt...

    It might be that there is enough of a population to allow a small harvest while growing the population and maintaining sex ratios.
    It might be that maintaining a limited hunt is viable and has the benefit of maintaining the culture of hunting and the benefits it provides to people.
    It might be that hunting mortality is often compensatory with natural mortality, thus having a neutral effect.
    It might be that managers Want the population to drop. Ya know, starve the wolves into submission.....
    you didn’t know licensing was profitable are you serious it’s all about dollar bills look in the kootenays it well documented there has been a huge elk decline in the last decade yet they give out 1 cow per mu pretty much why bother I’ll tell you why how many thousands of hunters spend 6 dollars and put in for that one draw?? It’s all about $$

  7. #6
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Just because you will not apply to harvest females, does not mean its not an appropriate management tool.

    I am not gender biased.. if they legally allow the harvest of females and i have a valud tag, i harvest.. its about meat, not whats between the legs
    "It's not the kill, but the thrill of the chase" - Deep Purple

    "Lord knows I'm a Voodoo chile" - SRV (RIP 8-27-90)

    "Know your Land, Know your Prey" - Mantracker

    http://www.youtube.com/user/welderse...e=results_main

  8. #7
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Bucks have to survive as well come winter.
    And with Wintering grounds becoming less and less abundant due to development and in my opinion some over harvesting of timber, the deer
    congregate more and more together and in closer circles which means possibly not enough feed in those prime habitats.
    So balancing it out so some bucks survive, mature ones who are wasted from the rut is in my opinion a good idea.

    We can talk about limiting Doe Leh down the road when the "real issues" are dealt with to help deer populations rebound quicker, for sure.
    But kind of useless if the "Real issues" are not dealt with and we just blame the low #'s on hunting.

    So there is 2 camps, imo.
    The ones that blame other hunters.
    And the ones that blame all the other issues outside of hunters.
    Take your pick.

  9. #8
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    you didn’t know licensing was profitable are you serious it’s all about dollar bills look in the kootenays it well documented there has been a huge elk decline in the last decade yet they give out 1 cow per mu pretty much why bother I’ll tell you why how many thousands of hunters spend 6 dollars and put in for that one draw?? It’s all about $$
    Seriously, your going to complain about 1 cow elk tag........1 elk tag is nothing compared to the 300 that they were giving out. There are more cows killed every week on the highway for Christ sake.

  10. #9
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    you didn’t know licensing was profitable are you serious it’s all about dollar bills look in the kootenays it well documented there has been a huge elk decline in the last decade yet they give out 1 cow per mu pretty much why bother I’ll tell you why how many thousands of hunters spend 6 dollars and put in for that one draw?? It’s all about $$

    You asked a question. I took the time to respond with several potential answers.

    And this is all you care to address.

    That says a lot.....

  11. #10
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    That was my question is it an appropriate management tool based on declining populations shoot as many females as you want I never said you can’t read the post again it was a valid question for the people who apparently know! Why are people getting so defensive shouldn’t we be considering what best for the resources not your freezer???
    Quote Originally Posted by rocksteady View Post
    Just because you will not apply to harvest females, does not mean its not an appropriate management tool.

    I am not gender biased.. if they legally allow the harvest of females and i have a valud tag, i harvest.. its about meat, not whats between the legs

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