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Thread: Question for the experts!?!?

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  1. #1
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    Question for the experts!?!?

    Hey guys its been awhile since Ive been on here hope everyone is doing well! I have a question I know its likely been bounced around in the past, but I cant wrap my head around it and I know there are some biologists on this site. If the mule deer populations and the moose populations is certain area's are struggling as much as we are led to believe they are..... then WHY are we still giving out female LEH draws for those species??? IMO it is 100% a cash grab??? I have shot a few females early on in my hunting career but I have made a decision over the past few years to stop shooting females and I wont put in LEH for them, it seems completely counter productive to me to shoot the life givers especially if we are in a situation where populations are down..... someone smarter than me please explain the rationale behind this??

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  3. #2
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    Hey guys its been awhile since Ive been on here hope everyone is doing well! I have a question I know its likely been bounced around in the past, but I cant wrap my head around it and I know there are some biologists on this site. If the mule deer populations and the moose populations is certain area's are struggling as much as we are led to believe they are..... then WHY are we still giving out female LEH draws for those species??? IMO it is 100% a cash grab??? I have shot a few females early on in my hunting career but I have made a decision over the past few years to stop shooting females and I wont put in LEH for them, it seems completely counter productive to me to shoot the life givers especially if we are in a situation where populations are down..... someone smarter than me please explain the rationale behind this??

    This oughta be good!😂

  4. #3
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Cash grab? I didn't realize licences were so profitable for the govt...

    It might be that there is enough of a population to allow a small harvest while growing the population and maintaining sex ratios.
    It might be that maintaining a limited hunt is viable and has the benefit of maintaining the culture of hunting and the benefits it provides to people.
    It might be that hunting mortality is often compensatory with natural mortality, thus having a neutral effect.
    It might be that managers Want the population to drop. Ya know, starve the wolves into submission.....

  5. #4
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    Cash grab? I didn't realize licences were so profitable for the govt...

    It might be that there is enough of a population to allow a small harvest while growing the population and maintaining sex ratios.
    It might be that maintaining a limited hunt is viable and has the benefit of maintaining the culture of hunting and the benefits it provides to people.
    It might be that hunting mortality is often compensatory with natural mortality, thus having a neutral effect.
    It might be that managers Want the population to drop. Ya know, starve the wolves into submission.....
    you didn’t know licensing was profitable are you serious it’s all about dollar bills look in the kootenays it well documented there has been a huge elk decline in the last decade yet they give out 1 cow per mu pretty much why bother I’ll tell you why how many thousands of hunters spend 6 dollars and put in for that one draw?? It’s all about $$

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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    you didn’t know licensing was profitable are you serious it’s all about dollar bills look in the kootenays it well documented there has been a huge elk decline in the last decade yet they give out 1 cow per mu pretty much why bother I’ll tell you why how many thousands of hunters spend 6 dollars and put in for that one draw?? It’s all about $$
    Seriously, your going to complain about 1 cow elk tag........1 elk tag is nothing compared to the 300 that they were giving out. There are more cows killed every week on the highway for Christ sake.

  7. #6
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    you didn’t know licensing was profitable are you serious it’s all about dollar bills look in the kootenays it well documented there has been a huge elk decline in the last decade yet they give out 1 cow per mu pretty much why bother I’ll tell you why how many thousands of hunters spend 6 dollars and put in for that one draw?? It’s all about $$

    You asked a question. I took the time to respond with several potential answers.

    And this is all you care to address.

    That says a lot.....

  8. #7
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    I do appreciate your prospective but I was definitely surprised with your comment about the financial side of the house every decision made has a financial influence I very confident about that!
    QUOTE=Walking Buffalo;2101265]You asked a question. I took the time to respond with several potential answers.

    And this is all you care to address.

    That says a lot.....[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Why would it be hard to reinstate hunts they are the ones making the rules they can open and close seasons all they want. I think you are giving the ministry a lot more credit than they deserve. if you honestly think they care about your hunting opportunities well you are definitely a positive person good for you! I honestly believe they generate money off the backs of hunter while miss managing our wildlife. Do you even think they really know what’s going on out there I don’t it’s even been said on here they don’t often do counts because it’s costly!! Anyways it was just a question I was hoping for some scientific logic to help me understand QUOTE=boxhitch;2101269]Any idea why they put out a leh hunt op with only one tag?
    Its so the hunt stays alive. They have reduced the permit numbers because the pop number target has been achieved and in some cases due to pressure. If they went to zero, the chance of reinstating the hunt when they wanted is far more difficult if not impossible. The permit numbers has to be kept fluid for proper management and to allow opportunity.
    Any idea how much the entire LEH process generates for income?
    But is has to be about the money , right[/QUOTE]

  10. #9
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    Why would it be hard to reinstate hunts they are the ones making the rules they can open and close seasons all they want. I think you are giving the ministry a lot more credit than they deserve. if you honestly think they care about your hunting opportunities well you are definitely a positive person good for you! I honestly believe they generate money off the backs of hunter while miss managing our wildlife. Do you even think they really know what’s going on out there I don’t it’s even been said on here they don’t often do counts because it’s costly!! Anyways it was just a question I was hoping for some scientific logic to help me understand QUOTE=boxhitch;2101269]Any idea why they put out a leh hunt op with only one tag?
    Its so the hunt stays alive. They have reduced the permit numbers because the pop number target has been achieved and in some cases due to pressure. If they went to zero, the chance of reinstating the hunt when they wanted is far more difficult if not impossible. The permit numbers has to be kept fluid for proper management and to allow opportunity.
    Any idea how much the entire LEH process generates for income?
    But is has to be about the money , right
    Who's getting fired up, and whos coming into this conversation with preconceived notions and challenging valid reasons that don't fit your preconceived notions? If you wanted a bunch of yes men to simply agree to your thoughts on the subject, this was the wrong forum haha.
    Have you ever sat down with a regoinal wildlife manager or biologist? I find it insulting that you believe these guys would care at all about the money, they certainly don't see any of it unfortunately. They would love to see all of our license and tag fees go directly into their budgets, Ive been told they wouldn't even have the resources to spend that much $, so to say these guys don't care about anything but our money when they are actively out there doing their best to influence policy, make sound decisions and work with politicians when they too are hunters and volunteers is ludicrous. You need to get over your preconceptions and educate yourself as to who does what and how much we contribute. even if its $10 million, staggering number to me and you, but to a province that runs revenue around $59 billion...think about that

    Quote Originally Posted by curt View Post
    My mom works very closely with the CO’s and has for 20 plus years every decision made is centred around money trust me on that!!
    The CO's are not the wildlife managers. They both have shit budgets, so ya, the CO's need to watch how much fuel they burn, how much time out in the field they can have, and how many stupid calls they MUST attend to for problems like people encountering a bear in the bush that is being a bear, or a cub on the side of the road cause mom got hit by a car...
    Last edited by Darksith; 07-03-2019 at 10:49 AM.
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  11. #10
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    Re: Question for the experts!?!?

    Well, this is a loaded question.
    Firstly, what areas are you talking about?, entire regions?, MU's or portions of either?

    Where I hunt MD, I see a lot of Does every time, and actually probably see more the past few years then before.
    But then, does that actually mean more are around?
    Do I just hunt better now then before?

    I don't doubt some who say MD appear to be down in the areas they hunt.
    But then the next guy over in the next valley may not feel that way.

    Truth is, we don't "micro manage" populations.
    We have large Regions and even large MU's and many mu's inside that region.
    The best we get to manage I suppose is inside an MU and even smaller thru Zones in LEH.
    So, 3-31 might have lots of does in one corner while in the other part few.

    Other thing is, there isn't a whole lot of counting going on out there by the ministry.

    Last thing, and probably the most important one, is that I think some who complain about the LEH Does tend to think "Hunters" are the reason for the
    "Decline" in #'s.
    Where as those that don't concern themselves too much with Doe LEH feel that much of the issues are "other factors" causing decline, if at all.
    Again, see above for their thoughts.

    The truth is, I don't think the issue is hunters causing declines.
    So, if that is true, and it is the other factors (not hunters) than why would limiting hunters "make a difference"??.
    Stop hunters, yet the reason for the declines would continue.!!! (that simple)

    Now, if you are in the other camp, and it's hunters causing the decline, than I have "1 question for you"!
    Explain why after 40 years of more and more hunting restrictions and limitations and even seeing LEH for many species in many areas,
    THAT once where open and GOS etc.
    Why haven't the Game #'s Increased???
    Think about it, we've done a good job of curbing hunters and their success rates all over the place, yet the Game still Declines!

    Fix the real issues and I believe the numbers of MD will increase. (pretty simple).
    Ban hunting completely if you want, but don't fix the real issues, and just keep watching the MD #'s "continue to drop".

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