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Thread: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    490

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by boxhitch View Post
    40, you touched on several issues in one post, not going to quote it and give it traction

    You probably already know why the regs select for a sustainable hunt, why try to muddy up that one ?

    Not trying to muddy anything … if anything let's have some clarity.

    Do you think a guided rich dude would have had that ram taken away? That's not a rhetorical question BTW! … but let's pick on a young resident hunter to make a bureaucratic point.

    And just another quick question … what has sustainability got to do with it? You must be familiar with the "Skeena Model", which has allowed for ridiculously high quotas in Region 6 that have nothing to do with sustainability.

    To be clear … the ram is legal and was a good one to take. Problem is, the bureaucrats want to further their personal agenda with least risk.

    I hope the family of the young man pursues an appeal of this B.S.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Skeena River 6-15
    Posts
    192

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    I think that by the letter of the law and setting precedence, the right call was made. Sure this ram likely was 8 yr old, but giving it a pass on annuli that are not visible, and count 7 wouldnt be right. Seems like nit picking, but it would set up case law for the next questionable ram that is shot and goes to court. In terms of character attacks, sheep guides are sheep guides, biologists are biologists, good ones and bad ones in both groups. In terms of all the guys saying they would shoot this ram, maybe think again? Also, if the incisor had been pulled there would have been further evidence of age for a judge to make a decision on, but this wasnt done either. I think its a fair but unfortunate decision.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    27

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by kitnayakwa77 View Post
    I think that by the letter of the law and setting precedence, the right call was made. Sure this ram likely was 8 yr old, but giving it a pass on annuli that are not visible, and count 7 wouldnt be right. Seems like nit picking, but it would set up case law for the next questionable ram that is shot and goes to court. In terms of character attacks, sheep guides are sheep guides, biologists are biologists, good ones and bad ones in both groups. In terms of all the guys saying they would shoot this ram, maybe think again? Also, if the incisor had been pulled there would have been further evidence of age for a judge to make a decision on, but this wasnt done either. I think its a fair but unfortunate decision.
    Take a mental note from now on how many mounted rams you see with only 7 visible annuli. It's a fact that ram was over 8 years old and taking it away is an absolute crime. Biologists are scientists, and the scientific studies and measurements taken from years of harvested rams are meant to help with learning how these sheep grow and age. Science points to the fact that ram is 8 years old and anyone who knows sheep well will understand that. It's good that many people on here would not shoot a ram like that because there is NO room for error when judging an 8 year old who doesn't break the nose. If there was a false annuli we would have been screwed on an under age ram, however it was plain to those that watched him for 2 days that they were not false annuli, and that was confirmed by the biologists. Again, risky call but in this case the correct one. What is disgusting is that a group of Provincial Biologists can look at a horn that is broomed off 6" around and say that it is a lamb tip and that the first visible annuli is only 1 year. This case would indeed set a precedent for correct aging of CI'd sheep across the Province and that is why the Government had to defend it's own even though they know that they are going against the same aging rules that they profess to use.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    27

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.


    Here's an example of a ram that I shot off of the same mountain as the OP ram. Same cohort, same genetics. Count the growth rings and the growth pattern. Exactly the same. My ram was CI'd in FSJ by someone who knows how to age sheep and it was aged at 8 years old, the same age as the ram they call 7. The ONLY difference here is that the OP ram is broomed and because of that they shave off an entire year even though science and compelling evidence shows otherwise.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    4,104

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    ^^^^Yup, like you say, it does look like the same ram identically except for brooming
    (Really nice ram by the way!)

    I guess the only thing with the OP ram is it would have to have waited another season, hit 9 years of
    age, just to have 8 rings visible, and thus legal per the Regs.
    (Even thou it is an 8 year old)

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    693

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    That picture really puts it into perspective

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    46

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    ^^^^Yup, like you say, it does look like the same ram identically except for brooming
    (Really nice ram by the way!)

    I guess the only thing with the OP ram is it would have to have waited another season, hit 9 years of
    age, just to have 8 rings visible, and thus legal per the Regs.
    (Even thou it is an 8 year old)
    i don’t think anybody is arguing that the ram is not 8 but like stated this opens up a whole can of worms. If you can’t count 8 rings don’t shoot it! Cut and dry

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    kamloops
    Posts
    2,380

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    i would not have shot that ram...he did not make the legal definitions. should have gone and found a different one.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    In the bush near a lake
    Posts
    6,322

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    Spoke to some of the sheep hunters I know 1 being a guide all said they would not shoot that sheep on age because it broomed off it’s physical evidence of age. Not one doubts it’s an 8year old ram but with the evidence broomed off its not a shooter. I know for a fact the rams they have taken on age have physical rings

    Odds are I call the 2 CIs I know they will tell me the same thing

    This thread does show the definition of 8 year old ram in the regs needs to be made clear

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,065

    Re: Warning to bc sheep hunters.

    As it sits now the aging of horns was brought in so guys could shoot 10-11 year olds that may never be above the bridge of the hose. It was not meant to shoot an eight year old that has broomed off his lamb tip regardless how big the ram is. So this thread and other people complaining to the government will get the law changed to say that the horn must have 8 annuli showing for it to be legal.
    The problem that is going to happen is people will start shooting rams on what they think is an annuli and you will get sheep shot that have 8 rings but not true annuli. People will fight these in court and the government to avoid going to court on whats a ring and whats not will simply eliminate the ageing of rams. Can you say Spences bridge?
    Now guys are complaining that they are seeing mature rams that are 10+ years old and will never be above the bridge of the nose.

    BHB
    Quote Originally Posted by BiG Boar View Post
    Are you M or F? Might get more takers with tits.

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