Caribou recovery and effective methods to deal with wolves en masse?

[Wild one]

Don’t sound like growing more wildlife to me

[bearvalley]

Been a busy 6 month holiday from here...the powers that be lifted my ban so here’s my 2 bits on the caribou recovery plans.

Firstly, Mountain Caribou in BC are seeing population drops in many areas and some of these caribou herds are minimally affected by habitat degradation.

Southern Mountain Caribou even tho no longer in areas they previously occupied are not going extinct.
We need to remember that caribou from northwestern BC were fine to use in the failed transplant to the Purcell Mountains.

Competitive ungulate species are not what’s causing the caribou declines...in fact the other species numbers are dropping as well.

Predation is the declining factor and everyone “cries wolf” but bears and wolverines do damage as well.
BC has had zero management plan for ungulates other than how to eradicate them.
We’ve done a super job of growing predators....in the last 30 years grizzlies pretty much tripled, wolf control went sideways when the tools went out of the tool box and trapping went to a fraction of the past.

So now we’ve got an overload of predators chewing on a handful of caribou trying to stay alive in unsuitable habitat.
Whats gonna happen...all the levers are gonna get pulled....but the habitat one is gonna take 50 years to heal.

Maybe we need to look at how viable these caribou recoveries are going to be until after we have suitable habitat.

So a “Primary prey” reduction of moose is to take place to move the wolves away from the caribou trying to be recovered.
The moose numbers get whacked...in past schemes like these current proposals it wasn’t unheard of to remove 70% of the moose in the prescribed area.
So the moose are gone...dead.
Where are the predators....they’re still eating.

Since “wolf” is the predator most refer to...the wolves are still there eating an alternative food source to moose...caribou, elk, deer, livestock......they sure aren’t going to starve out because if the alternate prey source runs low their canine legs will pack them to another “happy hunting grounds”.

Now to quote a biologist friend of mine had a career in caribou recoveries...”Where the hell do you move a wolf where there already isn’t a wolf”?
All that happens once wolves are displaced into a new area, the ungulates in that “happy hunting ground” are subjected to a higher level of predation.

Wolves will cover a lot of country when they’re displaced....who’s to say their next residence isn’t in the middle of a distant caribou herd that’s already got its own resident wolf packs.
By shifting predators we’re really just compounding the problem.

Primary prey reduction is a fail...BC isn’t an island full of pigs & foxes.

The biologists involved in this current recovery plan have a pretty good idea of how many wolves are chewing on these caribou.

Lets look at the Itcha Mountain herd that was at 2500+ not many years ago and is now down to 600 or less.

There are presently 10 identified, collared wolf packs in the area of that caribou herd.
Average pack size before pupping was 8.
Each pack will most likely gain 6 pups....maybe more.
Theres a good possibility of 150 wolves chewing on those 600 caribou.
The caribou don’t have a chance.....that’s only 4 each.

Some say a 50% wolf reduction is the ticket.
Too slow this up the wolf population needs to drop 80% or more.
It’s a proven fact that a pack of 4 wolves kills as many animals as a pack of 10...the 4 just move on quicker and kill more often.

Mountain Caribou recovery plans recommend that wolf populations be dropped to less than 3 per 1000 sq/km.
Wouldn’t it make sense to deal with the culprit instead of executing the scapegoat.

[northof49]

Hear Hear!

I am quite aware of the experiments WB notes.
And as a biologist, I STRONGLY concur with his assessment.
This is a ludicrous proposal, and should not have even been slightly entertained.

Rob - you note it may only work if ALL steps are adhered to.
This is BC.
That will NEVER happen.
Tossing the baby out with the bathwater is not what is called for at this juncture.
Nuking 50% plus of the wolves, a decent number of the cats, and reintroducing the girzzly hunt are what is required.
And that is what we should be working towards.
Period. Full Stop.

Nog

^^^THIS
Yes....using all tools at your disposal. The current problem is a result of too many years of inaction for fear of upsetting the vocal minority and potentially losing votes. Need to cut the head off the snake and quit sidestepping the real issues.

[northof49]

Agree with you BV.....100%. Need to deal with the issue head on.

[browningboy]

Put a 1500 bounty on a wolf, cheaper than helicopters etc

[Caribou_lou]

Going by the odds and tentative number of tags given out in the synopsis for 2019-2020. Region 6 moose hunt LEH applications alone raise $26,800 alone. I dont have time to add up what the entire synopsis makes for B.C. But in the hundreds of thousands. Bring back the grizz hunt and it makes a pile more. Along with taking out some preds.

[tigrr]

Why is everyone trying to save the caribou?
If it isn't sustainable for whatever reason let them disappear and move on. Killing off other types of animals to try and sustain caribou is an unworthy exercise.
I would like to see a $500 bounty on wolves.

[northof49]

^^^not really about the caribou. The boo are just another means to an end for those pushing their agenda.

[Walking Buffalo]

"Recovering the fox population required an intensive ecosystem management program. Apparent competition with the pigs caused the fox population on Santa Cruz Island to fall from approximately 1500 to100. The recovery program included eagle translocation early on, but eagles from the mainland and other islands could replace the removed birds (Roemer et al., 2001). It was therefore determined that conserving the fox required feral pig control (Coonan, 2003; Roemer et al., 2002). In2005, the U.S. National Park Service and the Nature Conservancy, which owns most of Santa Cruz Island, implemented a pig removal program.Within a year over 5000 pigs were removed and the species was successfully eliminated from the island (Griggs, 2007). The fox population has subsequently rebounded to a healthy level (estimated 734 ± 254in 2008;Morrison, 2011" (http://agecon.okstate.edu/faculty/publications/4951.pdf).

Based on what I read in the back up data for the recent Serrouya/Hebblewhite study of caribou it looks like reducing alternate prey (moose) without doing other things doesn't always guarantee a rebounded population for caribou, but it can increase them. It also looks like the same thing happens with wolf reduction. Combining the approaches seems to produce the best results. It's not surprising that scientists recommend pulling all the levers.

Killing pigs (a predator) to save foxes is Not an example of the Alternative Prey Theory....
It is actually proof that the direct cause of mortality should be removed, pigs/wolves, same thing.


Hebblewhite could also provide you with proof that simply reducing the predators would provide a near guarantee that prey species Will increase.




Rob, the Alternative Prey theory was introduced into Canada as a poor last choice experiment in the Alberta Caribou Commission proposals, offered to politicians to provide them comfort within a conceived social licence while pretending that they were doing something. Biologists from the very beginning stated that this route was not expected to succeed.
The Bio's said, want to save the Bou', kill the wolves until the habitat can regenerate.

I was the first "civilian" to catch wind and expose this experiment to the public. Exposed Alberta F&W's secret plan to kill moose to starve wolves.
Hunters and Hunting group directors initially said I was Crazy, no way F&W would use hunters in such a fashion without consultation.... until I pulled the papers to prove that I was right.

Just like eating Tide Pods, the concept has become a fad.

This theory and experiment has yet to work despite tens of thousands of moose and hundreds of thousands of deer being killed.



It is time to stop pretending that this experiment may work.
Demand that the Alternative Prey theory be eliminated as an option.
Carry on with predator reduction and habitat manipulation.

[bearvalley]

Well said Walking Buffalo!
Primary prey reduction to move wolves off caribou has been and will continue to be a fail.
At one of the Caribou Recovery consultation gatherings, during s break from the crowd I asked the presenters...”How can you stand in front of a bunch of people and blow smoke up their ass?”
After a bit of shuffling and looking at the floor their answer was...”we want to kill wolves”.
Go figure....once again hands are being tied and the right call not made due to political interference.