Kootney elk

[drakfero]

I understand there are pockets of excellent elk populations in the Kootneys ,but not sure of hunting access.Any local information would be appreciated...

after all those fires and wolves i go rather up north. Met a guy couple of years back and he saw in 1 week 1 doe (they shoot her) and 8 grizzlies..
Up to you , but dont waste your time if you dont know local guys..

[Bugle M In]

There is a few theories floating out there as to why many parts of the EK have seen decline in regards to Elk.
Many of whom would say that the noticeable declines started around 2008 (depends n area)
A big one (and it has a lot of merit) , is that the Zone X "over achieved" it's goal.
But make no mistake, they wanted to see big drops in Elk in the lowlands that were becoming Resident Elk.
Which then asks the question, why were they not going back to the high country, especially when it is proven the feed is 4X's more nutritional in Spring/Summer than down low.
And that is where many are putting the weight into Predation causing game to move down low to human populated areas to avoid them.
I know I read a report from a Trapper (not sure if he was a Bio?) who predicted some areas were going to
be in a disastrous state in a few years due to wolves.
(From what I read and he predicted, he was bang on).

So, you have elk avoiding Preds, so they move and stay down low.
Then Zone X takes them out, to the point that there aren't enough elk to look for more fertile ground back
in the high country because it was getting to populated to stay low.

In other words, one was feeding the other.
And boom, a big drop in no time!

And don't forget, some areas have historical larger herds.
The areas were population carried less elk seem to all but have nearly disappeared.
Stupid part was, we implemented a 6pt restriction because we were worried about elk #'s declining in the 90's, mostly due to a "too liberal Cow LEH" for too many years.
So 6pt and a drop in Cow leh was implemented, and things were turning around by the mid 2000's.

What no one was watching was the wolves and other pred #'s.
No one realized that many of the mature bulls were being taken.
And many of the non hunting community were complaining about elk being a nuisance.
Perfect storm and terrible management.

And now, if you read the "fine print", they want to fix the problem...
BUT, just a "little bit".
They are not wanting to have herds of 20-25,000 anymore.
More like bump up estimates of less than 7000 head to "maybe" 12,000 head ...AT BEST!!

Don't expect that kind of management to make success rates get much better!!

[Bugle M In]

If any members from the East Kootenay Wildlife Association (EKWA) has the 2017-18 Rocky Mountain Trench Elk Inventory, it sure would be nice to post it up or a link to a .pdf.

(I had it, but lost it)

What I can tell most HBC members is:

1) The lack of mature 6pt bulls in the counts was "scary"!
2) The low #'s of young bulls was not great either!
3) Calf Recruitment was sad looking (I am not sure what they are to be per 100 cows, but it looked bad).

Hopefully someone can post it!!?
(Although I never figured out how to put up a pdf on this site anyways, if I still had it)

[338win mag]

Zone X "over achieved" its goal, any idea's as to how that happened?

[Bugle M In]

I think they wanted to go as low as 8,000, but now they say 12,000 is a better number.
So, under 7000 is to me "over achieving".

Here is what found from EKWA FB site:
(also, when it came to bulls per 100 cows, I remember >6pt being low from those bulls.)
And how old are those 6pt bulls?? (if it matters?)

2018 EAST KOOTENAY ELK SURVEY RESULTS
An aerial inventory game count was completed this winter for elk in the East Kootenay (below 1200m elev).
Here's what we learned as a stakeholder on the Kootenay Wildlife Hunting Advisory Committee:
East Kootenay Elk (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26)
Population estimate (total elk)
2018: 6700 to 6900 elk
2008: 14,115 elk
Approx. 50% decline in 10 years.
2018 survey also showed:
Calves per 100 cows: 38
Bulls per hundred cows: 14
Other things reported to us:
Bull harvest appears to have been increasing even though the population was decreasing. (Final # for the licensed hunter bull harvest is not yet complete)
Spike bull harvest is estimated to account for ~25% of the bull harvest
Illegal bull elk take (5 pts and smaller) from self reports and abandoned kills could potentially account for another ~5% on top of the total licensed hunter bull harvest.
The only proposed regulation changes are:
Eliminate spike bull season
Reduce/eliminate cow LEH tags.
There is still no plan to recover elk and no objectives for the elk population or hunter harvest

[Bugle M In]

Still missing the " 6pt or greater" in the count that I saw, but shows some of the issue.
Also doesn't show how many were under 6pt taken.

[Bugle M In]

Last season I had the opportunity to "cover a lot of ground" and I was lucky to be in there with some heavy snowfall that week, which really helps to "see the sign".
We covered a lot of watersheds, 1 plus 3 other decent ones that flow into it.
The best we counted was probably less than 30 elk combined from the sign.
they were grouped together in a few small groups, the largest being a group of appr. 18 in 1 band.
I did talk to the GO a couple of times since, and he was in after us, did a lot of hunting in those areas, and he agreed, that a count of no more than 30 elk is probably accurate.
This is an area that is not heavy in elk like other areas, but there should be at least 200 head in those valleys, if not more!
That's how bad some areas are, and yes, the closer to town and private land, the better the #'s to hunt.
Just expect it to be crowded and highly competitive.
South in the EK is better than North, but go if you like the view!
Don't go if you want "action", as that is a role of the dice, and yes you can be lucky, and hit the right time and right spot, but its not a 50/50 opportunity each season as it used to be. (at least for me).
And removing Cow and young bulls from the hunt will happen soon and "NO", it will not help.
Preds and over logging and beetle kill have caused the bigger issue.
6pt restriction was a joke and just gave some a false sense of security!
I don't think they wou;s have reduced cow leh in the late 90's down to 1, if they had done a better job in the 90's not allowing 500 permits in many mu's and had been more realistic and have kept it to 50 per mu?.
But what was all these restrictions for when we don't manage the habitat and preds and allow special interest groups to cull elk thru zone x hunts and allow others to build all over prime winter habitat.
And the logging in the right areas is highly beneficial, but the cut block right next to it can be just as devastating and to not have hardly any mature growth around is ridiculous and can not be helping elk avoid preds. (and why they are staying "in/close to towns")
Many issues to be fixed, not just more regs again.
Lots of money needed.
Worst thing, the policy going forward is not going to help much, as they don't want elk to be higher than
12000 head from my reading so far.
We need to push for a totally different strategy, and not allow the ministry etc to cave to special interests
"ANY LONGER"!!

[wideopenthrottle]

Here's an article to get you started: https://www.columbiavalleypioneer.co...n-past-decade/

Recently saw the winter counts on elk, and there sure aint many bulls in there, and even worse, 6pt in
the counts.

Are there Elk in the EK, yes.
Some areas traditionally hold more elk than other, but it will hold more hunters as well.
And those "pockets" of elk exist, but most locals know that also, and its a competition every morning to
see who gets in first each day.
If you do know people with private property, your chances go up for sure.
And if people have a good spot that is still holding elk for them, they wont tell you.

But there is a reason why other parts of the province has become over crowded as well now with
elk hunters, and it because things are bad in the EK.

If you are a local, then it's not a big deal to run out the door and hit your favorite spots.
If you have to plan a trip and long drive there, well many have changed their plans.

especially since the 2 doe limit is gone...it was worth it for 4 hunters to come back with 8 almost guaranteed deer and an elk maybe...not so much of
a guarantee to get 4 does and 4 bucks...the koot should be seeing less pressure as of late

[Moose Guide]

Almost no elk left here, mulies are non existent and our whitetails have been decimated by a very generous doe season. I will be going north for moose in august and hunting hard for elk here at home all season, but it looks very dismal. If you find a pocket of elk, you best keep it to yourself!

[Bugle M In]

I can tell you for a fact that where I hunt elk, in it's hey day, there where trucks driving up and down (before the road closures where enacted) all day long, and many.
After the road closures, there were appr. 20 hunters plus the GO clients, and some where sheep hunters who would take elk if it fell in their laps.
For the past 15 years, it was just us for 1 to 2 week long hunts, and the last group of 3 hunters bailed 6 years ago now.
(sure there is still the odd road hunter from time to time, but not even daily).
This area is not "being shot to shit" like some say.
(maybe some areas have high pressure to produce, but not this are)
This is "mismanagement" at its best.
Not dealing with Preds and not dealing with the main effects of beetle kill and using logging (overlogging) to combat it (which isn't the truth, it's about getting the $ out before it is killed).
These are the real problems.
We all but did away with the cow leh (only 1 permit per mu now!, and they don't shut it right down because future attempts to re-open it would be near impossible and a real challenge, even if we do get our shit together and elk do come back)
Zone X type hunts will be done with and so will young bull hunts with bow.

The rest is what we get the ministry to correct properly thru Pred management (F the caribou policy by limiting food sources for wolves, just cull them, and get our GBear hunt back and actually add more permits and a fall hunt)
Get on the forestry sector issues, as these policies and amount of harvesting is not helping.
Get land assembled where all other private interests from developers to ranchers and icbc have no f'n say
in it.
Implement all these changes in the late 90's, from basically eliminating cow leh permits and imposing a 6pt restriction and no predator culling, and to see that thrown to the side because of private interests and zone x in 2008 or so and watching the elk #'s drop off drastically in 10 years "should be the smoking gun"!

People in the Peace Region, expect a further increase in hunters in the next few years, if there weren't enough already.
Same goes for LEH odds going up due to many now applying to those type of elk hunts.
This is what happens when one area goes to hell.
And is why the WK saw more elk hunters when it became GOS.
It would have all worked out, if the EK Elk had been monitored and managed properly.
Blaming other hunters is just plain stupid for the declines "this time around".
(the 90's yes, possibly to a point, but not since 2008 and these declines)