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Thread: Kootney elk

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,515

    Re: Kootney elk

    I think the main issue is that we don't really have a say any longer.
    Maybe at onetime, we had BCWF to speak for us.
    And I know they have tried hard to "keep things open", because once shut down, it is hard to open again.
    (Which is unfortunate, AND shouldn't be like that when a population rebounds)

    But somehow, there is a real disconnect between hunters and the Ministry.
    And I say Ministry because governments change (libs have had a lot more time to have made it better and
    didn't, and the ndp are Anti)
    But there are some just below to top in the chain of command who never lose their jobs.
    Who have been there for too long, and probably have a tight relationship with the Private sector we never
    hear about (that is just my thinking), and who never lose their positions even after an election, they just
    end up with a different boss.

    Look at Freshwater Society, where it is a lot of sports fisherman in there, and they do get their funding now from all sales of freshwater licensces to use towards conservation, whether habitat or restocking etc.
    THEY (which is us) have a say and input on "what gets fixed" and "what amount of stock" a lake should have.
    And due to this, a lot of lakes are very productive for people to use.
    (Some are trophy, catch and release, which would be like an LEH in hunting to have some trophy spots)
    Others are for everyone to take some home.

    Hard comparism, trout are landlocked to a small pond, ungulates don't have that restriction, so it is harder.
    BUT, we should have a say on what population of certain species to inhabitat a region overall.
    And than find ways to make it happen.

    It's seems to me, "Someone else" (not a hunter) is dictating the levels of game.
    Which are "barely huntable" anymore.
    And that is not a healthy solution.
    That is poor game management.
    That is not "preserving game" for future generations.

    If wildlife is not "harvestable" and we don't manage it as such, than our wildlife is to me,
    on the "Critical List" and at a high risk of being extinct down the road.
    If we have a decent "huntable" population, than we have done our part for the future after we are gone.

    Anti's just think if they stop hunting, they have solved the big problem.
    Some get it is actually the habitat that needs protecting to save animals.

    We have to get back control of "what we want" and how much.
    The fight is with the Private Sectors who are wanting less wildlife.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    region 9
    Posts
    11,528

    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by micus View Post
    I agree, allowing a singular WT doe probably isn't going to mean the end of the world for the POP. There was a time not so long ago that there was a mulie doe hunt in Reg 4 that basically destroyed the population around here.

    as far as a petition goes, I think we could leave a lot of requests out and simply put forth a statement of intent wishing the desired ungulate numbers to be increased above current levels. that at least would get the ball rolling and let the powers that be know there is a group of vocal people with a vested interest in the provinces ungulates.
    Completely agree.........

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    region 9
    Posts
    11,528

    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    I think the main issue is that we don't really have a say any longer.
    Maybe at onetime, we had BCWF to speak for us.
    And I know they have tried hard to "keep things open", because once shut down, it is hard to open again.
    (Which is unfortunate, AND shouldn't be like that when a population rebounds)

    But somehow, there is a real disconnect between hunters and the Ministry.
    And I say Ministry because governments change (libs have had a lot more time to have made it better and
    didn't, and the ndp are Anti)
    But there are some just below to top in the chain of command who never lose their jobs.
    Who have been there for too long, and probably have a tight relationship with the Private sector we never
    hear about (that is just my thinking), and who never lose their positions even after an election, they just
    end up with a different boss.

    Look at Freshwater Society, where it is a lot of sports fisherman in there, and they do get their funding now from all sales of freshwater licensces to use towards conservation, whether habitat or restocking etc.
    THEY (which is us) have a say and input on "what gets fixed" and "what amount of stock" a lake should have.
    And due to this, a lot of lakes are very productive for people to use.
    (Some are trophy, catch and release, which would be like an LEH in hunting to have some trophy spots)
    Others are for everyone to take some home.

    Hard comparism, trout are landlocked to a small pond, ungulates don't have that restriction, so it is harder.
    BUT, we should have a say on what population of certain species to inhabitat a region overall.
    And than find ways to make it happen.

    It's seems to me, "Someone else" (not a hunter) is dictating the levels of game.
    Which are "barely huntable" anymore.
    And that is not a healthy solution.
    That is poor game management.
    That is not "preserving game" for future generations.

    If wildlife is not "harvestable" and we don't manage it as such, than our wildlife is to me,
    on the "Critical List" and at a high risk of being extinct down the road.
    If we have a decent "huntable" population, than we have done our part for the future after we are gone.

    Anti's just think if they stop hunting, they have solved the big problem.
    Some get it is actually the habitat that needs protecting to save animals.

    We have to get back control of "what we want" and how much.
    The fight is with the Private Sectors who are wanting less wildlife.
    Completely agree with this too....

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    N. Okanagan
    Posts
    14,182

    Re: Kootney elk

    I think the main issue is that we don't really have a say any longer.
    Maybe at onetime, we had BCWF to speak for us.
    And I know they have tried hard to "keep things open", because once shut down, it is hard to open again.
    (Which is unfortunate, AND shouldn't be like that when a population rebounds)

    But somehow, there is a real disconnect between hunters and the Ministry.
    And I say Ministry because governments change (libs have had a lot more time to have made it better and
    didn't, and the ndp are Anti)
    But there are some just below to top in the chain of command who never lose their jobs.
    Who have been there for too long, and probably have a tight relationship with the Private sector we never
    hear about (that is just my thinking), and who never lose their positions even after an election, they just
    end up with a different boss.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree. Though BCWF has fallen out of favour with some of the HBC crowd, they are still very much connected on all fronts. The ground level Gov't offices are also connected, and feed their input to those in Victoria where there are also concerns.
    The issues of hunters are real and everyone knows them.
    That is where it stops. At the top levels Hunters concerns get weighed against all the other woes of the population like schools, transit, health care, forestry jobs, etc ad nauseum
    Best we can do AS A COLLECTIVE is write letters and call meetings starting at the MLA level and on up and build up that voice.
    But we all know hunter apathy and how less than 2% really get involved, so don't hold your breath.
    Never say whoa in the middle of a mud hole

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Langley & Magna Bay
    Posts
    6,737

    Re: Kootney elk

    Elk is the one animal I haven’t connected with, albeit I have put in the effort compared to others, been really close! I have always looked at going to the Koots but not sure where to go and hearing the doom and gloom don’t think it would be entirely different from other areas to a degree
    I like drinking beer and whiskey, shooting guns, jetboating, love a nice rack and a tight line, I am simply a sophisticated redneck...

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,515

    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by browningboy View Post
    Elk is the one animal I haven’t connected with, albeit I have put in the effort compared to others, been really close! I have always looked at going to the Koots but not sure where to go and hearing the doom and gloom don’t think it would be entirely different from other areas to a degree
    I wouldn't look at it that way (even though the way I speak makes it sound like that)
    There is no comparison to the EK and it's landscape, even if the odds are so crappy at times.
    Everyone should at least go there once if they hunt.
    I go because it is an amazing place, it's become a place where I have spent many hours with my dad and uncles, and other relatives and friends over the years….tradition.

    I am just pissed because there is no need for game like elk to drop to those levels as of late.
    And worse, to have had a policy to drop elk that low.
    And the worst, now to only want about half of the elk compared to when hunting for elk was half decent.

    They got all hung up about the elk in the lowlands and wanted them Culled, which they did and too much
    they realized in the end.

    THE BIGGER Problem is:
    No one was listening to a lot of experienced hunters that elk were "not in the back country".
    So, zone X was not only culling elk from the lowland #'s, but from all the #'s of elk.
    (for the most part anyways).

    If they want no more elk than 8,000 in the Zone X regions...fine!
    But what they "failed" to do was get elk to move back and repopulate the areas outside of Zone X.

    And that's were another member with experience stated it will be hard to repopulate the back country
    without elk in the low country like zoneX
    It's just F'd thinking at this point and no desire it seems to correct it properly or to listen to hunters.

    But hunting the EK is an experience everyone should try, at least once.
    The Goat hunting can be spectacular and nothing else compares to the views up top.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    region 9
    Posts
    11,528

    Re: Kootney elk

    ^^^^if they're going to get the elk into the high country again, correct me if I'm wrong, but they'll have to hammer wolves as a first step..

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    696

    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryToolips View Post
    ^^^^if they're going to get the elk into the high country again, correct me if I'm wrong, but they'll have to hammer wolves as a first step..
    Agree 100000000%

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gods Country
    Posts
    998

    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryToolips View Post
    ^^^^if they're going to get the elk into the high country again, correct me if I'm wrong, but they'll have to hammer wolves as a first step..
    Yup, not a bio but I’d guess good feed and low predators numbers would be just the carrot to get them moving up and changing their habits. Anyone think the low predator numbers is gonna happen anytime in this lifetime?

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    296

    Re: Kootney elk

    Boys here is one of the reasons..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGtc...Ts&app=desktop

    Hunting book says right from first pages..
    Shelter , food , water..

    Shelter: Its hard for animals to hide in couple of clicks long cut when there are no trees and trees over 15 feet. its just too thick , and i am not saying hide from people but from predators. All of us have seen what garbage BC forestry makes after they get they dollar. No "puck" given at all..

    Food: If you see that youtube link i put higher above , that guy hit it big time. First 2 years after logging lots of food but no cover , than forestry sprays everything just to have trees they planted growing faster and getting more light. I think i read article or saw video , biologist were finding dead moose.. full bellies but no nutrition in the body all because it was sprayed on. If not sprayed on , all you see there is domestic cows eating all food game needs for winter.

    Water: The spray stayed in the soil for 2 years so you can imagine where it ended.. In the water..

    Now you wonder why all animals are on the farms? Think again.. Those animals we eat and we are feeding our children.

    What we really need is group of lawyers-hunters and make big pressure on our government. I come from small country same size as Vancouver Island and we have more Red Stags than whole BC has elk (just to compare). How much longer we gonna be quiet? Sturgeon , grizzly , salmon.. Now they are trying cats.. We need to stand up TOGETHER !!!


    We also need to reduce predators ourselves , dont rely on government. We are the last they wanna help.

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