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Thread: Kootney elk

  1. #61
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by j270wsm View Post
    I call bullsh*t on the theory that hunters are the primary reason that ungulate numbers are down. Between Fernie and km128 north of Elkford( almost 100km ) there was 300 cow elk tags given out per yr for 10yrs. I’m going to guess that there was 2500 cows taken during that time. Are people that blind that they think a heard of 8000 elk will be reduced to their current numbers( maybe 1500-2000 ) by hunters alone in 10yrs?????

    In a herd of 8000 elk, 5000 are probably cows. If 3500 have calves( pretty sure this number would be higher ) of those calves 2275 are cows( basing this off a guess that 35% of calves are bulls ) let’s say 35% of the calves survive to breed. That gives us around 800 cows.....that’s a lot more than my guess of 250 cows per yr being killed by hunters.

    I guarantee my math isn’t perfect and my percentages are off but it paints a good picture that in my part of the east kootenays it’s not just the hunters. Trains, vehicles, poaching, and predators take just as many or more elk than hunters alone.

    Maybe someone with better computer skills could find and post numbers from a government source that shows survival numbers and cow/bull ratios for calves.

    You do realize that killing one cow isnt just killing one elk right?? killing one cow is reducing the elk population by around 45 in the next 5 years. now do some math.

  2. #62
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kootenaykid85 View Post
    You do realize that killing one cow isnt just killing one elk right?? killing one cow is reducing the elk population by around 45 in the next 5 years. now do some math.
    Absolutely correct ... and this goes for the mule deer does , cow moose and even the once plentiful whitetail ....

  3. #63
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kootenaykid85 View Post
    You do realize that killing one cow isnt just killing one elk right?? killing one cow is reducing the elk population by around 45 in the next 5 years. now do some math.
    Fortunately that’s not the way it works. A good percentage of those cow harvests are compensatory, meaning they would have died anyways through predation/collision/disease etc. and aren’t added to total mortality.
    "The farther one gets into the wilderness, the greater is the attraction of its lonely freedom."

  4. #64
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by HighCountryBC View Post
    Fortunately that’s not the way it works. A good percentage of those cow harvests are compensatory, meaning they would have died anyways through predation/collision/disease etc. and aren’t added to total mortality.
    Yes these are a factor calculating allowable harvest but clearly with the present state of the elk populations things did not turn out as intended

    Not exactly as simple as your stating though

    Clearly with the way elk numbers have declined there was a miss calculation on what was surplus after the other factors that impacted the elk population
    Last edited by Wild one; 04-22-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  5. #65
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by micus View Post
    mmmmmmmm..... Pull up any FSR from West Creston to just north of Cranbrook come Sept 11th and all you see if 5th wheels and trucks with quad decks/trailers. Yahk main, kidd, plumbob, don't even get me started on the bull ( you could put in a set of Traffic lights and a tim hortons at the entrance in sept).

    I support people traveling to hunt and us all taking advantage of hunting opportunities as BC residents. BUT, as an EK resident, I can tell you this place fills up with the mass migration from LM / Vancouver/ surrey, van isl, etc etc in Sept.
    That's because the areas you just stated "still have some elk".
    In the areas like where I go, the #'s dropped so badly, people have gone elsewhere.

    Yes, some areas of the EK see pressure, because there are some elk.
    And yes, us non EK guys find that info out too, not just locals.

  6. #66
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Look folks,

    Take the Peace Region (and I haven't been there yet to hunt elk).
    But the LEH is showing an MU with a ton of permits for cows.
    This should tell you that the Ministry is working with private landowners and some others to have elk #'s
    reduced in the area.
    (In other words, giving hunters some short term benefit, but the end game is to reduce elk).

    Same went for the EK.
    In the 90's they saw a problem and thus pulled back on LEH Cow permits.
    I think they realized (as well as pressure from GO's) that elk were down, so they also put in the 6pt
    restriction.

    THIS WORKED!!, elk came back, and maybe to the point where the 6pt could have been lifted AND a
    few Cow LEH handed back out.

    BUT, for whatever reason (potentially preds chasing elk down to the valleys?) the elk stayed lowed.
    They weren't repopulating the high country ion the Spring like normal!?

    AND, during that time, the Ministry again listened to private landowners and others etc, and put in
    ZONE X.
    (Yes, hunters benefitted, but was again a short term benefit with long term consequences).
    The whole intent was to drop elk #'s to around 8000 by implementing zone x hunts.


    SO, WHY did we even bother getting the 90's cow leh permits withdrawn and why did we even institute a 6pt restriction!????????

    The Ministry dropped the ball.
    They weren't listening to many hunters that the elk were leaving the high country and not coming back.
    All the ministry did was try to address all the elk (the majority of the populations) in the lowlands and
    have the majority to shot off.

    Cant really blame hunters for this type of direction.
    IF the tags are there, hunters go and hunt.

    BUT, the ministry should have been paying attention the to Preds issue, the forestry issue (beetle).
    They didn't, and this is what we have now.
    Kiss the early bow season good buy and any cow leh.
    BUT, what is the Ministry going to do different now???? (nothing, accept put in restrictions!!)

    FOLKS IN THE PEACE,
    Sounds to me like a lot of what the Ministry did in the EK, they are now going to do with you folks and your elk.
    Are they addressing Preds?
    Are they trying to remove elk from private property?

    You can always tell their intent by the amount of "Cow leh allocations".
    (yes, you have to have x amount of cows only so some bulls can make it thru the winter, fyi)
    But when you see this type of "liberal" allocation, there is more to the story.

    AND, to me, the Ministry has shown me they are "INCAPABLE" of actually managing wildlife.
    AND, they are no longer managing wildlife "FOR HUNTERS".
    The Ministries interest are for "OTHERS".

    SO, STOP blaming each other or putting other hunters down folks.
    It's crappy "wildlife management" at it's best!!

  7. #67
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    Yes these are a factor calculating allowable harvest but clearly with the present state of the elk populations things did not turn out as intended

    Not exactly as simple as your stating though

    Clearly with the way elk numbers have declined there was a miss calculation on what was surplus after the other factors that impacted the elk population
    Wildone,

    When it comes to the EK, the ministry wanted elk down to around 8,000 head.
    There was no mistake by them.
    They may not have considered how much preds might harvest.
    And yes, hunters are "efficient" at hunting elk.
    (collaring info shows how many elk have met their end by hunters)

    The Minsitry knew.

    J-T has stated it the best.
    The ministry is not "trying to grow game" to a level we hunters think they should.
    (Like the EK elk population, they only want to have about half the historical levels)
    They want 12,000 head in the EK.
    When hunters had the most fun, (and what made the EK "legendary") there were at least 20,000 elk.
    (some might say 30,000!?)

    People need to "wake up".
    This was "not a mistake"
    Just "over efficiency"!
    They wanted the elk "Culled" for Private Sectors.
    They made it happen.
    And now us hunters will pay the price again"

    Guess with what????

    Yup, more Restrictions (and necessary because the ministry did what they did)

    (I just hope hunters in the Peace see what could happen to them)
    And hunters from all over will still search for "other areas" to try and find elk.
    So, the WK can be "warned" right now.
    You ain't seen nothing yet!

  8. #68
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kootenaykid85 View Post
    98% Of people posting on here or that come over to the kootenays from the coast/interior are lazy incompetent hunters. You come over here towing your trailers and quads, drive around shooting anything that is legal. Go home log on here rub your hands together and then start complaining about population numbers and predators..... asking for new areas to hunt. Its hilarious.

    I am honestly glad the ungulate poplation is at a low makes it a tad harder for me, makes me go a little deeper. See some new country some new animals, the best part will be not having to see the crowds anymore!!. If your literally just coming over here to animals for "meat" when you know there is a problem in our wildlife managemt, then you are no worse then the people trying to stop hunting. If you have the money to buy the stuff for "fancy hunting" then you have the money to support the cattle industry.
    You shouldnt be asking "hey where are the rest of the animals that havent been shot or eaten or hit by cars and trains living so i can finish them off"?? you should be starting threads like... " What can we do to help the situation over there".
    And you know 98% of the people posting here and where and how they hunt ? Im going to say your being very presumptuous and even insulting in your post,

    especially the lazy incompetent hunter part that's a classic, as long as those folks don't do anything illegal what business is it of yours how or what they hunt or the extent of their knowledge to hunting ?

    And generally shooting anything that is legal is just that....LEGAL obviously you have an issue with a legal hunt, if a fellow wants to shoot a WT doe for MEAT is he lazy incompetent hunter to you ? a bad hunter because it doesn't conform to your narrow minded ideology ? I thought the whole purpose to go hunting is to get some wild organic meat to eat......???
    7mm PRC soon to be the most popular cartridge in North America

  9. #69
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    Re: Kootney elk

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Wildone,

    When it comes to the EK, the ministry wanted elk down to around 8,000 head.
    There was no mistake by them.
    They may not have considered how much preds might harvest.
    And yes, hunters are "efficient" at hunting elk.
    (collaring info shows how many elk have met their end by hunters)

    The Minsitry knew.

    J-T has stated it the best.
    The ministry is not "trying to grow game" to a level we hunters think they should.
    (Like the EK elk population, they only want to have about half the historical levels)
    They want 12,000 head in the EK.
    When hunters had the most fun, (and what made the EK "legendary") there were at least 20,000 elk.
    (some might say 30,000!?)

    People need to "wake up".
    This was "not a mistake"
    Just "over efficiency"!
    They wanted the elk "Culled" for Private Sectors.
    They made it happen.
    And now us hunters will pay the price again"

    Guess with what????

    Yup, more Restrictions (and necessary because the ministry did what they did)

    (I just hope hunters in the Peace see what could happen to them)
    And hunters from all over will still search for "other areas" to try and find elk.
    So, the WK can be "warned" right now.
    You ain't seen nothing yet!
    Intentonally lowering numbers is no doubt a possibility and would make sense

  10. #70
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    May 2014
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    Re: Kootney elk

    little long winded there bugle m in .. sure the goverment puts the regulations and tags in place but they have tooooooo... smoking ciggerettes is legal but should you personally smoke every single one you can?? you cant sit here type away and blame them. you come over here and kill the elk.. do you come over here and kill the predators to compensate? people are easy to blame the powers at hand but they are to dumb to realize its there own common sense thats will catch up to them in the end.

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