Originally Posted by
Rob Chipman
Danny_29:
"Holy. Touchy subject I guess. Everything I've read suggests spray and a rifle are just as effective."
"Read" and "suggests" being the operative words.
Herrero thinks spray is effective, as do many others. Gary Shelton has other things you can read that would indicate the contrary.
What do you know from personal experience or from people you know and trust?
My personal experience is that grizzlies and black bears are scared/unaware of me. I hope it stays that way (check Rinella and his amended desires about grizzly encounters - they changed when he experienced one up close and personal).
People I know and trust? There are lots.
I know of a guy who put a couple shotgun rounds into a young charging grizzly that had just received and run through a face full of bear spray. That bear was very hungry and was charging a group of guys who had been making plenty of noise (they were working, not hunting). It shouldn't have been charging a group of people in the first place, and it should have bailed when it got a can full of bear spray in the face, but it didn't.
The same guy who shot the bear has had plenty of bear encounters in the past, is very bear savvy and is not a bullshitter. Bear spray didn't do the job there.
Another guy I know and trust ran into a grizzly while hunting in thick underbrush. He was armed, but used the spray. It ended well for all concerned. Again, experienced outdoorsman and no bullshitter.
There are a million of those stories on each side of the ledger. What's that tell you? Pretty simple.
-A bear that isn't committed to eating you could very well bail in the face of bear spray, so bear spray can be very effective;
-A bear that isn't deterred by bear spray needs either a good punch to the side of the head or a kick in the nads *or* a good stabbing from your trusty pocket knife as he's sitting on you and chewing on your cranium *or* a bullet (choose your weapon wisely).
I think you can also speculate that bear spray gets deployed on a lot of less committed bears and firearms get deployed on more committed bears, so stats like the ones you're citing are suspect. They aren't coming from any kind of controlled experiment.
I also know that people who like guns probably recommend a gun for a grizzly more than people who aren't gun aficionados, who in turn recommend bear spray. A lot of people in each group don't have any real g-bear experience and so are speculating and don't know how difficult a g-bear can be when it sets it's mind to something.
Start asking people who work in the woods about their encounters - especially if they work on the central coast doing jobs like timber cruising or planting or fisheries work, or something that doesn't involve lots of people and lots of noisy equipment. It won't take too long before you hear someone say "I ****ing hate grizzlies" and when you ask why you'll hear the (not uncommon story) of the grizzly putting the guy up a tree, ripping off the guy's boot heel in the process, getting a face full of spray and being very pissed off as a result. That kind of encounter qualifies as a "persons
defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time..."
Personally I don't carry a rifle if I'm in grizzly country by myself. I've just never been that worried about it.
If I'm out with my wife or someone else's kids? I give it some serious consideration. The last thing I want to do is explain to some mother why I didn't die trying to save her kid from a grizzly attack. It probably would never come to it, but I don't want to have that conversation. I'd rather explain why I'm carrying a rifle.
"How effective is a rifle or shotgun on your back when your sneaking through the bush with your bow in your hand? "
Not effective at all, especially if it's not ready to go and you can't bring it to bear. That said, emergency situations in the great outdoors seldom unfold as scripted.
How effective is bear spray in your holster when you're sneaking through the bush with a bow in your hand? If you've got time to get your bear spray out you've probably got time to get your rifle up.
Will you hit the bear if all of a sudden a surprise charge catches you unawares and you're looking at a huge monster bouncing along the ground faster than a quarterhorse bent on eating you? It'll be tough with a gun, or a bow, or bear spray.
Will you hit a bear with a firearm if it's just jumped on your buddy? Probably, if you can sack up. Yes, you may (and this has happened) kill the bear and injure your pal with the through shot, but it'll probably work better than bear spray alone. Your pal will still thank you.
Have you ever had bear spray not work at all (I have) or have it go off by accident in the gear during travel (I have)? It happens. You ever have a rifle misfire? It happens.
So, free world, the coffee is hot, your mileage may vary, but personally I default to a rifle if I need one (kids, wife, small party, high enough probability of bear encounter), and I recognize that bear spray may, in some circumstances, be easier to deploy and may be more effective, so I will take it as well if needed. But like I say, if there is a committed bear with a bad attitude the last thing I want is to be around when someone else in the party is slowly being killed. Anytime shit has a chance of getting that real I don't want to be the test case. I want all the tools.
mpotzold:
Nice pics. Were you walking that area or riding?
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