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Thread: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

  1. #11
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    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Whack and stack ! lol ...
    BLACKRIFLESMATTER

  2. #12
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    Dec 2009
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    langley
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    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    I think a torn off dew claw in field is far worse than under control situation at 3- days old. Definitely would want tail docked to eliminate potential damage.

  3. #13
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    Dec 2007
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    In the bush near a lake
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    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton Gundogs View Post
    I have raised spaniels(English Cockers and Springers) most of my adult life. I would not have a working Spaniel with a full tail. I have seen spaniels with full tails come out if a days hunt in heavy cover with the tips turned to bloody hamburger to a point of needing major surgery. We leave 2/3 of the tail when they are docked at 3 days. FYI most puppies don't even yelp during the process. With working Spaniels it is a necessity rather than cosmetic. Docking does 2 main things. #1 it takes the whip out of the thin tip and #2 adds tough scar tissue to the tip as a sort of protective armor to the vulnerable tip. I personally would much rather dock the tail at 3 days which is a non event to the pups than put an adult dog through unnecessary major surgery due to tail injury. I know at least 5 vets who are spaniel breeders and trainer/trialers and to a person all say docking is a humane necessity with ALL working Spaniels. A pic is worth 1000 words

    Undocked tails, Blood in the flanks are from the tail tip, The tip is a mess of raw meat and hurts if it is touched UT never stops wagging all through the hunt



    Tails docked at 2/3 length both these dogs are hard hunting gundogs and have NEVER had tail damage


    I have always been neutral on this subject but these pics do show a valid argument for docking the tail

  4. #14
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    Oct 2008
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    Jordan River
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    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Well for all you circumcised guys on this forum, how did you turn out, do you cry alligator tears like Turdo, do you have trouble getting over the horrid experience, how have you made it this far in life....
    Avatar is for all the conspiracy theory nut bars, for all the crow they have to eat when everything implodes

    I've never heard of someone who isn't vaccinated getting polio

    Trump will win big time in 2020

    Why is it that rednecks from Alberta can't get enough of men in dresses, they simply lose their shit

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    East Kootenays
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    9,143

    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    In the field no issues, in the living room.. disaster.. our boxer and cane corso clear the coffee table with regularity
    "It's not the kill, but the thrill of the chase" - Deep Purple

    "Lord knows I'm a Voodoo chile" - SRV (RIP 8-27-90)

    "Know your Land, Know your Prey" - Mantracker

    http://www.youtube.com/user/welderse...e=results_main

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    9,436

    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Used to be involved in Springers before labs.... All of them were hunters and all docked. The early dogs in my life were heavily hunted, back when there were covies of Blues all over the island...
    Dock them. Like Foxton has said they are done early on and have no idea what happened.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,247

    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by huntingfamily View Post
    Correct. It is now only legal in 3 provinces - Ontario, Sask & Manitoba. So far...
    Actually it's more than twice that many provinces. You can add BC, Alberta, Quebec, N.B. and PEI to the list. The litter my griff came from in Quebec was the last litter to have docked tails since she was born at the end of December in 2016. In January of the next year it was made illegal.

    I have heard that if you can provide evidence that the docking of the tails is NOT for cosmetic reasons but safety related instead because of the working situation that the dogs are involved with then you still may be able to get the tails docked. ie. dogs that hunt One thing for certain is,,,, vets can't dock tails in any of these provinces because if they do they will lose their license.

    I, too, have witnessed dog that have had broken tails and how they've never fully recovered from their injury because of nerve damage, etc. Their tails are often deformed.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,247

    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Piperdown View Post
    Well for all you circumcised guys on this forum, how did you turn out, do you cry alligator tears like Turdo, do you have trouble getting over the horrid experience, how have you made it this far in life....
    I still have nightmares about this because I fear they took a couple of more inches than was absolutely necessary.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    13

    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    I reached out to the CKC after their recent email:

    Hi, I was wondering if you could direct me to the scientific evidence and presentation mentioned in the link at https://www.ckc.ca/en/News/2019/February/ABVMA-Decision-and-Proposed-Changes-to-Alberta-Ani


    CKC was in contact with the ABVMA prior to the membership vote, providing scientific evidence to support cropping and docking procedures. This information was also complimented by a presentation to ABVMA on January 15, 2019.

    CKC's response:

    CKC submitted studies and legislative exemptions to the ABVMA Council. Most links refer to docking.

    Northern Ireland (exemptions for working dogs – likely to be used for work in connection with law enforcement, lawful pest control or the lawful shooting of animals.)
    · Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nia/2011/16/section/6

    England & Wales(exemptions for working dogs)
    · UK Animal Welfare Act 2006
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/section/6



    • Risk factors for tail injuries in dogs in Great Britain (indicates risk for all dogs in the home)

    http://politicalanimal.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/AW1403_9160_FRP.pdf

    Scotland
    · Analysis of Responses to the Consultation on the Proposal to Permit Tail Docking of Working Spaniels and Hunt Point Retrievers
    https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/research-publication/2016/10/analysis-responses-consultation-proposal-permit-tail-docking-working-spaniels-hunt/documents/00506730-pdf/00506730-pdf/govscot%3Adocument

    · The prevalence of tail injuries in working and non-working breed dogs visiting veterinary practices in Scotland
    https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/174/18/450

    · Investigations regarding tail injuries in working gundogs and terriers in pest control in Scotland
    http://theses.gla.ac.uk/5629/1/2014lederermvm.pdf

    South Africa
    · South African Wingshooters Fact Sheet – Policy Statement on Tail Docking in Gundogs
    https://www.wingshooters.co.za/pdf/Tail-Docking-FactSheet-LR.pdf\

    Cropping
    · Effects of ear type and weather on the hospital prevalence of canine otitis externa
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...070?via%3Dihub
    As you can see, most of their references are legislation, not scientific studies as claimed in their email to the CKC membership. There is scientific research supporting tail docking for working dogs but little to none for non-working dogs. The CKC being the CKC, their number one concern is maintaining the status quo so that the show people who make up the bulk of their membership can keep parading their fat slobs around the show ring.
    Last edited by SignalLight; 04-02-2019 at 08:17 PM. Reason: meant non-working dogs, not non-working breeds

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    823

    Re: Tail docking to prevent injuries in working dogs

    Good post SignalLight. You are absolutely right about ckc/akc. It's all about the $...

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