Crossbows on the 3D course

[willyqbc]

Well folks seem to think target damage is a big issue, I can't see that being a valid argument unless your prepared to rule out guys who shoot high poundage compounds that produce large KE as well. As stated earlier my current 3D rig is set at 73#'s and produces about 80ft/lbs. My previous set-up was 84#s and shot a 440 grain arrow 307ft/sec producing about 92 ft/lbs. So lets hear some stats on crossbows...what speed with what weight arrow are you guys shooting, i'd like to compare the KE numbers!

Chris

[willyqbc]

well after doing some research on crossbows it would seem that the specs are very similiar to the compounds. The fastest one I could find was from excaliber and it claims 355ft/sec with a 350 grain arrow, which is almost an exact match for the fastest compound on the market, the bowtech Black night at 350 ft/sec with a 350 grain arrow, 70#'s. Now even if the crossbow can make its claimed speed you are only looking at a few ft/lbs more than compounds I have shot in the past on the 3d course. So given that I would have to say that target damage should not be considered as an argument for keeping them off the 3D course. If anyone has any more/different info on crossbow speed and power please post it up.
[HTML] [To challenge a crossbow shooter at a 3D shoot would require a variety of solutions when laying out a shoot/HTML]

I think you may be underestimating the skill it would take to score well with a crossbow on a 3d course. The need to judge yardage would be the same as any other archer, and the need to hold steady on your target would be the same. In my opinion holding steady shooting a crossbow freehand would be no easier than holding a compound steady. Also considering that the compound shooters by regulation face targets up to 55yds away, I would say that the challenge would be more than adequate. I would just about gurauntee that you wouldn't see any more 10X's from crossbowers than you would from compounders on a 50 yard deer for example. Actually you might even have better results from the compounders. I read of a test that was done a while ago that showed a decent archer could put together a better group at 40 yds than a decent rifle shooter shooting freehand....of course you extend that range to 100yds and the results take a dramatic swing, but you get my point. I say that as long as they are categorized as bows they should be allowed. We need to stick together as archers if we are going to get anywhere with our sport.

Chris

[oldtimer]

WELL SAID SON !!!!!! couldn't agree more. You have seen me shoot compound and how much i move around. don't think it would be any less with a crossbow Mike

[J_T]

Willy,

Please keep in mind I was not commenting at all about bowhunting. My views on bowhunting respect the regulations and crossbows are legitimate tackle. As I read your comment, I thought possibly you had assumed I viewed 3D and hunting as one. Not at all.

My point was to question the compatability of crossbows at a 3D shoot and also consider any potential safety issues.

You appear to have justified that a compound bow and crossbow, are quite equal with respect to speed and Kinetic Energy. I'll accept that.
If you have high numbers of compound shooters at your shoots and you have crossbow shooters wanting to join in then that is a decision for the local organization to make. Certainly has the potential to increase revenue.

You also mention a 55 yard shot. While I might take these shots at a 3D I would never take it in the field. With traditional shooters at shoots, there are an abundance of shorter range shots in the 10 to 30 yard range. Because 5 to 20 yards or sometimes 30 yards depending on the animal is the effective range of traditional gear. If you extend the yardage too frequently (possibly to entice the crossbow shooter), the traditional shooter will likely cease to enjoy the shoot and subsequently, cease to come. Again, a decision for the local organization to decide which direction it should go.

With traditional gear, and compounds, the shooter steps up to the line, takes his position, eyes the target, knocks his arrow, comes to draw etc etc.... isn't it possible, that a crossbow shooter, having seated his bolt and readied his action at the line, might find that he doesn't have the desired steadiness, so he kneels down, or goes prone, or leans into a tree. I know if I was shooting a rifle, I want the most solid position I can take. Does this movement after the crossbow is readied, create a safety issue? Maybe not in all cases. But it might in some. Can the risk be managed?

I personally know of crossbow shooters taking 100 yard shots at game (and making them). This places them miles outside of my stickbow's league. Studies in the US have the use of crossbows so much more effective than a compound that they have moved them out of the archery season due to their effectiveness. I don't want to bring hunting into this, but use the example as an expression of how deadly accurate the crossbow is. Possibly over and above the compound.

Crossbows often can be a rifle hunters first exposure to a bow, and the new enthusiasm shouldn't be stifled, they should be welcomed, I agree.

JT

[willyqbc]

JT , Actually i was not thinking of hunting in my post but rather strictly 3D. I am a bit perplexed by your comments about the compatibility of crossbows and traditional bows at a shoot. Do the shoots you attend have one common stake for all to shoot from? All shoots I have ever been to have seperate stakes for compound and traditional each within the groups effective ranges. Most even have it split down to mens and womens compound, traditional and cubs all at their own stakes.

As far as the safety concerns.... i also voiced some concern over that but my issue was more directed to the temptation for shooters to cock the bow and seat their arrow in anticipation of moving up to the line instead of waiting until they are at the stake to do so. That being said I also recognize that a bonehead move is a bonehead move no matter what weapon you choose.

Chris

PS..... good debate!!! one of the best we've had on here so far!!

[Walksalot]

I think we must remember that we are shooting our said weapons by choice and I think we have to be carefull and try not to impose our personal values on other people. As long as the safety and harder on the target issues are addressed then I say live and let live.

[rrfred]

hey there all, An x bow is still an archery device, comparisons to the range of a rifle are a joke and xbows will generally match the power and trajectory of a good compound bow, efficiency of xbows is lower due to the shorter power stroke. the benefits of an xbow is being able to preload the device when hunting, the downside is bulk and noise. when people suggest the the range can be effective out past 50ish thats fine for practice but a one yard error past fifty will generally mean a fringe hit or a miss. on the range- great go for it- in the hunting fields keep the ranges sane ...those 80- 100 yds shots at game bragged by some are nonsense and irresponsible in my humble opinion.

my longest big game kills using and xbow was at 46yds, with a compund it was 43 overall and average is 28 yds for all of my archery killed meat . I've hunted and shot coumpound bows, self bows recurves and xbows extensively, great tools when used inside their limitations.

The other side of the equation is hunting skills and tracking skills where the serious bowhuntersmight may have a skills advantage- waiting for the best shot and focussing on going for unalarmed animals, patience and careful tracking after the shot. Sure would be nice to see the xbows allowed in 3d's I 'd go back for sure, would even take long shots for fun at foam targets, meantime I take out the xbow in the bush with my targets pratice out to30- 50yds ish, and enjoy when I do,

my opinion / two bits..... mileage will vary....... no flames please, cheers guys. rrfred

[3d bowman]

Just wondering on this topic......has anyone heard then, if crossbows will be allowed on the 3d course?? I think it would be interesting to shot with someone with a crossbow. Bring it on!!

[3d bowman]

Hey JT,
Just gettin back to site now sorry I didn't relpy, but it looks like you and Willyqbc are hashing it out. I would say have then shoot with the compounds at the furthest stake. Then go from there....trial and error. Just because someone shoots a crossbow doesn't mean they are going to be a better shot. Human error in all we do and individual skill will make it a challenge.

[bsa30-06]

I don't have a problem with it but i would think it would have to be at an indoor course or at a club that allows the discharge of crossbows.For example i know that the field here in burnaby were they hold the flat field 3d's they had to stop allowing crossbows due to a incident there a few years ago in order to just keep the archery field open.I'm sure there are probably other outdoor courses where the discharge of crossbows are not allowed.