Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 88

Thread: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    149

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    More upcoming meeting across the province:
    Mackenzie – Wednesday, April 10, 5:30 p.m. – 9:30 p.m., Mackenzie Recreation Centre, 400 Skeena Drive
    Quesnel – Thursday, April 11, 5:30 p.m. – 9:30 p.m., Quesnel & District Seniors’ Centre, 461 Carson Avenue
    Revelstoke – Monday, April 15, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Revelstoke Community and Aquatic Centre (Rooms MP2 and MP3) 600 Campbell Ave.
    Nelson – Tuesday, April 16, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Prestige Lakeside Resort and Convention Centre
    701 Lakeside Dr.

    Nakusp – Wednesday, April 17, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Nakusp and District Sports Complex Auditorium 200 – 8th Ave. NW
    McBride – Tuesday, April 23, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Robson Valley Community Centre
    441 Columbia St.

    Vanderhoof – Wednesday, April 24, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Nechako Valley Secondary School
    2608 Bute Ave.

    Clearwater – Monday, April 29, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Clearwater Secondary School 440 Murtle Cres.
    Cranbrook – Tuesday, April 30, 5:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m., Prestige Rocky Mountain Resort
    209 Van Horne St.



  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,794

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    boxhitch - thanks, but the link is missing something I think.

    Deaddog -

    You're kind of making my point both ways - "Lots of people in that room didn’t believe the bios...." and "Until the bios are given funding to act on study..."

    Science without action is just research, but the bios don't set eh policy anyway - it's government who does that. We'd be well advised, I think, to help scientists by forcing government to help them.

    I watched part of the PG Caribou engagement meeting. An audience member took the bios to task about not having any data or numbers to support the belief that they can recover caribou. The bio who answered was clearly a bit put off and replied "in my project area we've gone from 16 to 81 as a result of predator suppression and maternal penning, so how do you like those numbers?"

    It's be damn simple to keep that bio honest and make him produce data and hard numbers, especially in comparison to keeping government honest (I suspect we agree on that).


    I know that those of you beyond Hope think that the Lower Mainland gets everything it wants whenever it wants. That's because you're far away and from a distance we all look the same. Trust me, there are plenty of people here in the big city who pretty much feel the same way you do about who the government listens to. The urban/rural divide is magnified and exploited.

    Rob, even if the bios were honest and wanted to share what knowledge they have, they are still just puppets dancing on the govt. string and being told what to say and who to address it to.

    I have personally watched the Anahim Lake moose and Caribou herds be depleted by predators in the last 25 years. The Itcha herd has gone from 2500 to 600 in the same time period that wolves and grizzlies became a huge issue with depredation of cattle herds in the same area. Have gone from witnessing herds of 20 to 40 moose on their wintering areas to seeing huge willow flats empty of anything but wolf tracks.

    Yes, some human caused issues happened during this time period also but they are minute when you consider an area of 150,000 sq. miles. A huge portion of this area takes in two parks. Tweedsmuir once held a healthy population of caribou. There are none there now that I am aware of.

    Ungulates in this province need a little help in controlling the animals that kill them to survive. It will not be a pretty sight to watch but it needs doing nonetheless.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Kamloops
    Posts
    4,309

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Quote Originally Posted by gcreek View Post
    Rob, even if the bios were honest and wanted to share what knowledge they have, they are still just puppets dancing on the govt. string and being told what to say and who to address it to.

    I have personally watched the Anahim Lake moose and Caribou herds be depleted by predators in the last 25 years. The Itcha herd has gone from 2500 to 600 in the same time period that wolves and grizzlies became a huge issue with depredation of cattle herds in the same area. Have gone from witnessing herds of 20 to 40 moose on their wintering areas to seeing huge willow flats empty of anything but wolf tracks.

    Yes, some human caused issues happened during this time period also but they are minute when you consider an area of 150,000 sq. miles. A huge portion of this area takes in two parks. Tweedsmuir once held a healthy population of caribou. There are none there now that I am aware of.

    Ungulates in this province need a little help in controlling the animals that kill them to survive. It will not be a pretty sight to watch but it needs doing nonetheless.
    From the admitted few encounters I have had, but had them I have...I would say that the Bios are honest and want the exact same things we want. But they can't properly do their job without a budget. If they don't get real time numbers...facts...its hard to make recommendations that are beneficial to all parties involved. Yes the politicians and "budgets" are really to blame here. We need to remove so many things from general revenue in our province. First things first though, we need to stop the in fighting, the divisiveness among hunters and different hunting groups. Come together to get a voice, an international voice shouting at our politicians just like the anti's do, and then maybe then we can start to help the bios fix this problem

    Our biggest problem is marketing. Right now we are advertising "kill the predators" but really the headline should read "Save the Caribou". Its much easier to get people on board with the latter headline than the prior...and you can't do one without the other.
    WSSBC Monarch
    WSF Life Member
    2% Certified
    RMGA Member
    CCFR Member

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    149

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Update engagement schedule:
    We have a change to our engagement schedule.

    VALEMOUNT has been added to the schedule for APRIL 24th.

    VANDERHOOF has now been changed to APRIL 25th instead of April 24th.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,515

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksith View Post
    From the admitted few encounters I have had, but had them I have...I would say that the Bios are honest and want the exact same things we want. But they can't properly do their job without a budget. If they don't get real time numbers...facts...its hard to make recommendations that are beneficial to all parties involved. Yes the politicians and "budgets" are really to blame here. We need to remove so many things from general revenue in our province. First things first though, we need to stop the in fighting, the divisiveness among hunters and different hunting groups. Come together to get a voice, an international voice shouting at our politicians just like the anti's do, and then maybe then we can start to help the bios fix this problem

    Our biggest problem is marketing. Right now we are advertising "kill the predators" but really the headline should read "Save the Caribou". Its much easier to get people on board with the latter headline than the prior...and you can't do one without the other.
    Exactly, it has to be spun in terms of "save the Caribou"

    But the truth has to come out, that if wolves don't get culled, then we lose the Bou.
    So far, they way I see it being spun on the news is that it is "logging" that is the issue, thus the whole
    discussion to close off the whole area.

    We all know the roads help the wolves (thus the logging issue), but if the wolves were removed, there
    would be no issue.

    I sure hope the folks that show up make a good point of expressing the real problem which is Preds.
    The GBear ban didn't help either.

    As for the logging, well that needs to be reviewed as far as "practices" go.
    They do have to do a better job.
    We cant keep doing it this way any longer, it just causes too many bad effects.
    I get the beetle issue and the rush put on to harvest the green stuff, but it has to be brought back into a
    manageable harvest.
    And more jobs put towards restoration after an area is logged.

    NDP will get it shut down , just like that Reserve they want to put up down in the OK.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Van
    Posts
    1,888

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    gcreek:

    "they are still just puppets dancing on the govt. string and being told what to say and who to address it to."

    Some people may not like your characterization but you're certainly on point - I've been involved in the recent advisory process regarding Improved Wildlife Management and Habitat Conservation. Guess what? Distrust of government and government accountability were prominent topics. We need to do something that makes you stop saying that the bios are puppets, and that happens by you (and not just you, as I'm sure you understand) having a different experience with the bios so that you do start trusting them and seeing a clear connection between what they know and what they say (and what government does).

    The Itchas have always struck me as a perfect place for a controlled experiment - granted, lots of logging around that park, as well as fire, but what a great opportunity for testing the non-habitat measures that have been used in other areas. (Sidebar - I don't think there were always goats there, but there sure is now. Any thoughts/intel on that?)

    Darksith:

    "
    But they can't properly do their job without a budget. If they don't get real time numbers...facts..."

    Bang on. That seems to come up time and again.
    Me to bio: "Why not set a population objective, even if it's a wild guess and then recalibrate to see how we're doing?"
    Bio to me: "We could do that, but we'd never have the funding to do any future count, so how could we ever recalibrate and
    learn?"
    me: "Um...really? It's that bad?"
    Bio: "........"

    You've probably seen the same sort of thing.

    "
    Our biggest problem is marketing." Also true. Look at the SPCA thread, and look at the SPCA's position statement - something along the lines of "We support subsistence hunting for food, but oppose recreational hunting"; they equate "hunting" with "killing", and so conclude that recreational killing is unethical because it's killing for fun, which is cruel. It's fairly sound logic if you accept their assumptions.

    However, as hunters we know that it's called "hunting" and not "killing" for a reason. Hunting is much more than
    killing, and killing isn't always even a critical requirement of an individual hunt. We know that regulated hunting that is informed by science is sustainable and nowhere near as cruel a death as starvation from habitat loss, or death from exposure from loss of winter range, or death from disease or injury, or death from being eaten alive by predators. We could do well by marketing that viewpoint better.

    Additionally, as hunters we know that hunting is an important and traditional social practice that strengthens bonds between people. Non-hunters largely don't understand that (and it's tough for them to grasp) - we need marketing there as well.

    Bugle:

    "
    But the truth has to come out, that if wolves don't get culled, then we lose the Bou.
    So far, they way I see it being spun on the news is that it is "logging" that is the issue, thus the whole
    discussion to close off the whole area."

    The need for predator control is coming out more and more often, and it's important to recognize (and exploit) the fact that it is coming from non-hunters. Look for that, recognize it, spread it. When Steve Isdahl saves "cull
    wolves" a lot of people will dismiss him as a stone cold killer (even if his info is solid); when a non-hunter makes the argument it falls on more fertile ground and can be immensely helpful.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,794

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    gcreek:

    "they are still just puppets dancing on the govt. string and being told what to say and who to address it to."

    Some people may not like your characterization but you're certainly on point - I've been involved in the recent advisory process regarding Improved Wildlife Management and Habitat Conservation. Guess what? Distrust of government and government accountability were prominent topics. We need to do something that makes you stop saying that the bios are puppets, and that happens by you (and not just you, as I'm sure you understand) having a different experience with the bios so that you do start trusting them and seeing a clear connection between what they know and what they say (and what government does).

    The Itchas have always struck me as a perfect place for a controlled experiment - granted, lots of logging around that park, as well as fire, but what a great opportunity for testing the non-habitat measures that have been used in other areas. (Sidebar - I don't think there were always goats there, but there sure is now. Any thoughts/intel on that?)






    .
    It isn't the folks on the ground that makes me suspicious, it is those above them and those above them that make the decisions for various other reasons and motives that make me question.

    The goats have been there and on the increase in my 40 years here. My outfitter friend whose area they are mostly in has counted over 65 there and MOE still won't admit there is a large enough herd to take a couple of billies out per year.

    There was a few sheep there 35 years ago. I knew the idiot that poached the old ram and the ewes eventually died off or were killed by predators. When MOE was asked to put in some new blood in back then they informed those interested that "The Itchas weren't sheep habitat". Really? How did the first get there then?

    As I have said before, "We can all run the other guy's operation better than our own". but the management of wolves by BC's MOE for the past 30 years has sucked big time. It started with the moratorium on 1080.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,515

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Yup, the local "non-hunting" community needs to know the problems start with the Preds like wolves.
    When they get informed and get it into their heads, and realize "jobs are on the line", that they
    will "start to voice for a cull" to fix a big part of the "real problem".

    Then we can exploit the voice and make the snowball roll down hill to use every where else in BC with
    Pred issues.

    The locals need to get that in their heads.
    And then "Voice it", to make it happen.

    Might be the best thing to happen in BC, having this issue front and center right now.
    We might lose the area for all sorts of opportunity if the NDP gets their way.
    OR, we can get things to start rolling in the "right direction"!

    This could be a momentous moment for us if we approach it right to the non hunting communities in rural
    areas.
    And show that other areas could face the same fate, like the NDP are proposing, if we don't get the
    "right solution/s" across in time.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    N. Okanagan
    Posts
    14,182

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    wildsight
    "An historic Partnership Agreement between the First Nations and the federal and provincial governments has been announced. The Agreement is a strong model for caribou recovery and should be expanded beyond the Peace region to all herds.
    Stand up for BC's endangered mountain caribou and attend the BC Government's Community Meeting in Revelstoke. Let the government know that we must protect the old growth forests that mountain caribou need for survival.

    PS. For speaking notes regarding mountain caribou protection, see Y2Y’s companion on the draft agreements."
    Never say whoa in the middle of a mud hole

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    N. Okanagan
    Posts
    14,182

    Re: Caribou Recovery Enguagement

    Revelstoke Monday
    Nakusp Wednesday
    Enderby Thursday
    Never say whoa in the middle of a mud hole

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •