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Thread: Caribou and habitat.

  1. #31
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    I was only sent the information about the bear impact on calf mortality from a friend who was surprised on the impact bears could have. Did not realize wolf was the main issue but can’t say I am surprised. There is no doubt in my mind predators are a big part of the decline in some populations.

    There is still population where predators are not the issue.

    Habitat impact from industry is not always an issue but it some parts of BC it’s had an impact. In my opinion these areas were it has been an issue are also areas where beetle kill and development are added to it. I have also seen how game thrives in parts of the oilfield. Lots of timber combined with strips from pipelines ungulates seem to thrive even with all the roads. Farmland we all know game often does

    Impacts can be made from habitat issues as well

    I realize both can be issues and in some areas one or both are not the main problem
    Not sure if I said it on this thread or not.
    But at one point, when beetle hit the area I hunt in the EK, they came in a tried to "selective log" or tried to cut out
    the dead timber that were infested (hard to say what they were doing), but they only took out some trees while leaving
    other trees standing, all in the same patch, and I never saw so much different game use the same area!!
    Seemed to help for 5 or 6 years afterwards.
    Hard to say if other changes impacted those spots, or if that was the longevity of such work, because at that point they
    started to log the hell out of several tributaries as well as the main valley they flowed into.

    But you could tell that it made things better as far as game went.
    To obvious to deny or say otherwise, imo.
    So I agree with your points 100%

  2. #32
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Yup, I agree, although some could tell you that a park like Kootenay National Park isn't holding the ungulates, especially elk
    like it did in the 70's.
    They tried with fire, and it hasn't made a huge difference, at least form the Parks people who know the area well.
    Mind you, most of them weren't even born then??
    Lots of elk outside the park where logging happened.
    BUT the big difference was back then, logging was more "sporadic"!
    and that's how it was supposed to be. or at least, that's as much as they could log at the time.
    Changes in equipment and how they practice have changed a lot over the years.
    And sadly, requires less crew members, so less jobs, more timber down and lots of roads etc etc etc.

    Again, I think some things we can "generalize" as to "common issues" with game and many parts of
    BC.
    But like WildOne stated, BC is very diverse in habitat, and not everything is the same template as far as fixes go, imo.
    You mention that the numbers around Kootenay NP were holding a lot more ungulates back in the 70's. I firmly believe that spraying logged area's is THE big difference between then and now.In fact they didn't even have round up then. They logged back then, but what they didn't do is spray the aspen regrowth. It seems crazy to spray tens of thousands of acres every year and then wonder why the numbers are not what they used to be.

  3. #33
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    I have seen examples of industry development having both positive and negative effects on ungulates it is all about the overall available habitat in the area and in what way they impact the area

    I can tell you there is some huge mule deer bucks and bears living in some of BCs mines and I would not praise them for habitat. Mines also provide safety which intern benefits animals

    There is a lot more factors at play then most realize and some people won’t admit to.

  4. #34
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott h View Post
    You mention that the numbers around Kootenay NP were holding a lot more ungulates back in the 70's. I firmly believe that spraying logged area's is THE big difference between then and now.In fact they didn't even have round up then. They logged back then, but what they didn't do is spray the aspen regrowth. It seems crazy to spray tens of thousands of acres every year and then wonder why the numbers are not what they used to be.
    This is a factor that needs research in my opinion. At the min it has an impact by preventing the growth of mixed timber forests

  5. #35
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    This is a factor that needs research in my opinion. At the min it has an impact by preventing the growth of mixed timber forests
    http://hunterconservationist.ca/brit...guest-article/

  6. #36
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott h View Post
    You mention that the numbers around Kootenay NP were holding a lot more ungulates back in the 70's. I firmly believe that spraying logged area's is THE big difference between then and now.In fact they didn't even have round up then. They logged back then, but what they didn't do is spray the aspen regrowth. It seems crazy to spray tens of thousands of acres every year and then wonder why the numbers are not what they used to be.
    Well, the park itself obviously has never been logged.
    Biggest issue they thought was that no fire had hit the area for over 100 years.
    When they dropped collared elk off in the park, the elk within 24 hours had left the park.
    Strange that they ever needed to drop elk off there, as there were so many back in the 70's?
    Also, they wouldn't have done the first prescribed fire in a national park in all of Canada if everything was okay.
    Obviuosly there were issues.
    Elk left to the logged areas, but back then, logging was sparse and spaced out.

    As for spraying, I know some areas are bad in the province.
    However, I don't think they sprayed any of the cutblocks around where I hunt.
    Seems much of the cut blocks are clogged with alder and birch (young ones that have grown after logging) etc,
    so I don't think did.

    Anyways, fire has come and went many years ago now, and things should be good.
    But they are not.
    Who knows why??
    This isn't an area were the elk generally migrate into the ZoneX zones, so we cant say they were culled.
    So why are they missing??? who really knows.
    And its an area they better start thinking about looking at.
    I know elk didn't exist in much of the EK way back when.
    But this was an area where elk did show up at an earlier time then most areas as the #'s expanded.

    I saw one report by a trapper (cant remember his other qualifications) who basically "called it".
    He said that within a few years that the area would be void of most elk due to wolves.
    Not sure if it was wolves, but elk #'s are low as he predicted.

    Again, lots of complexity to the issues.
    Only way to know is to collar them just like the MD study.
    And hope when the problem/s are found, that the real solutions are actually possible to implement.
    As for Cariboo, well that's too late in some areas.
    Just wonder how much more piddling around other species like elk can take with out action??
    At least there.

  7. #37
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    This^^^^^

    It is so F'd up out there in a way we have never seen it before and way beyond the 50's.
    This isn't about feed like many think, imo.
    This is about habitat to evade and lay in, or winter in, and not being easily accessible to reach.
    That's the real problems.
    We just made it really easy for preds like wolves to exploit it.

    And we have windfall everywhere, so movement at migration times is impossible thru timber.
    So I guess creatures like Cariboo have no choice to walk thru these cutblocks which is easy pickings for wolves and such.

    So yes, we can blame global warming for not killing beetles like in the past.
    We can blame logging for access and large areas cut away because of the beetle.
    We can thank the cutblocks and roads for easy wolf migration.
    We can blame windfall on both beetle and some logging
    We can thank human encroachment with development and housing for fire suppression, thus the windfall remains.

    And we need to acknowledge that we are "not acknowledging" any of it as to why our game is missing or cant
    repopulate!
    We just keep going, we just keep cutting, we just keep putting out fires, and we keep pointing fingers.
    This....anyone who has spent time on the ground in Central and Northern BC with some knowledge of ecology, biology and habitat can see this is correct. Add in different branches of government and industry with opposing plans and limited collaboration and the future is scary. BC's dirty not so secret secret...we keep thinking resources are limitless and cutting/spraying/road building/not controlling predators while the canary in the coal mine is dying.

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