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Thread: Caribou and habitat.

  1. #11
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Roads where the roads are packed or plowed in the winter aside I keep hearing site lines from clear cuts being an issue with predators

    Now consider this with the increase in forest fires one theory is that the forest lacks breaks and density of trees increased do to how we replant/fight fires. Many also blame the lack of fire and forest density as a major decline in MD numbers. So healthy habitat seems to call for more open areas to improve ungulates as well

    So what direction do we need to go with habitat because it seems like there is some contradiction? Some may want to consider habitat is only one factor to BCs issues and can’t be the only focus to turning things around

  2. #12
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    Roads where the roads are packed or plowed in the winter aside I keep hearing site lines from clear cuts being an issue with predators

    Now consider this with the increase in forest fires one theory is that the forest lacks breaks and density of trees increased do to how we replant/fight fires. Many also blame the lack of fire and forest density as a major decline in MD numbers. So healthy habitat seems to call for more open areas to improve ungulates as well

    So what direction do we need to go with habitat because it seems like there is some contradiction? Some may want to consider habitat is only one factor to BCs issues and can’t be the only focus to turning things around
    Any kind of habitat over run with predators does nothing for ungulates at all.

  3. #13
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by gcreek View Post
    Any kind of habitat over run with predators does nothing for ungulates at all.
    Increaseing prey also has the results of increasing predators as well

    What is needed is balance and that won’t be accomplished focusing on one issue and after balanced it needs effort to maintain it. Even focusing on preds the hot topic is always wolf but some might want to look into the large impact coyote, bears and cougars have. We preach habitat but each ungulate species thrives under different conditions so what is positive for one is negative for another. Could a huge part of the reason both elk and WT have increased their range is the habitat has been changed and now favours them. Some species are also less adapted to predation then others

    Most are screaming about one issue like it will solve all of the issues faced by ungulates across BC. Now if only if people could see basically every issue brought forward is a factor and the level of importance to each varies across BC. Some issues are even no exist to some MUs and species

    Yes predators are a major issue in areas but others habitat, poaching, past winters or FN harvest are the big factor.

  4. #14
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treed View Post
    Having flown forest health flights for the last fifteen years... Balsam bark beetle is typically less than .05% of a stand. What we are seeing is not typical but is our new reality. Don’t worry about the fires, the true harbingers of doom are the bugs, pathogens, and stress on trees - but the fires will follow. Unbelievable the state of so many of our forests. Yellow cedar decline on the central coast due to low snow packs, warming periods and frosts has killed hundreds of thousands of hectares and nobody even knows about it except for a few forest health experts. Look at the dead top cedar all up the island hwy due to summer droughts. I was on Haida Gwaii this summer and couldn’t believe how extensive the die back was of 300 year old cedar - drought related I think. I was also in Tweedsmiur this summer, the epi-centre of the pine beetle. What a waste land of dead trees. Pine beetle, white bark pine and blister rust, spruce bark beetle, balsam bark beetle, and fire. Moose sign was so absent it was shocking. Don’t get me started on the poor health of all the pine plantations in the interior due to planting densities and rusts. Our forests are in worse shape than ever and after over a decade of minimal investment in inventory, we dont have a clue how empty the cupboard is. Combine this with salvage harvesting, and fires, no wonder ungulate populations are in flux.
    This^^^^^
    So many reasons for the state of our forests.
    Beetle is a big one, and way worse than it ever was in history.
    There was a time when we had cold winters, so global warming hasn't helped us, but did help the beetle accelerate like
    it never has in the past.
    Throw in hot summers with no rainfall, and some trees are stressed.

    I see areas in the EK, that where hit by pine beetle, and the whole mountain of trees dropped in a windstorm like a post nuclear explosion.
    Nothing can walk in it, and the only way to clean it up is thru fire or 100 years of sitting and rotting away.
    Problem is, we know the area needs to burn, but there are a few human structures in the area, so when I fire does happen, they went in to suppress it!!??
    This wasn't just 1 mountain, but several in the area, and some had some important migration trails from summer range to winter range.
    I get the whole "cut it" before the "beetle kills it" mentality etc.
    Truth is though, this isn't the true plan for forestry and logging as we had intended.
    Liberites have been taken with cutting big areas to get to the good timber before it's dead.
    Fire suppression still happens due to human structure loss AND also not losing the viable timber that could still be potentially harvested.
    Explosion of Preds, and more than likely due to all the accelerated logging and access everywhere, and we got a big problem.

    The forests are in "bad shape"....big time, all over the province.
    Regaining our wildlife is goint to be "really hard"!
    I doubt that even if we take the right steps, that it would take a good 30+ years to recover.

    I just watched an area that has been logged for 30 years now, and each year cut blocks got bigger and the timber went down faster.
    And yes, they try to replant over the years, BUT, now the area had a huge fire.
    Much of the replanted areas are now again lost, not that they were a great way to restore the area in the first place.
    So that area will now take 40 years at least to recover and that's in the areas that didn't burn too hot.
    Meanwhile, after such devastation, the logging industry is still going to go in now and cut down the firs in the winter range that didn't get burnt and is the only remaking mature growth around for miles.
    Yup, that's how bad it is.

    It is so F'd up out there in a way we have never seen it before and way beyond the 50's.
    This isn't about feed like many think, imo.
    This is about habitat to evade and lay in, or winter in, and not being easily accessible to reach.
    That's the real problems.
    We just made it really easy for preds like wolves to exploit it.

    And we have windfall everywhere, so movement at migration times is impossible thru timber.
    So I guess creatures like Cariboo have no choice to walk thru these cutblocks which is easy pickings for wolves and such.

    So yes, we can blame global warming for not killing beetles like in the past.
    We can blame logging for access and large areas cut away because of the beetle.
    We can thank the cutblocks and roads for easy wolf migration.
    We can blame windfall on both beetle and some logging
    We can thank human encroachment with development and housing for fire suppression, thus the windfall remains.

    And we need to acknowledge that we are "not acknowledging" any of it as to why our game is missing or cant
    repopulate!
    We just keep going, we just keep cutting, we just keep putting out fires, and we keep pointing fingers.

  5. #15
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    I wonder if the huge increase in deer fences on orchards and vineyards in region 8 has been a factor in some MUs for deer. Took away a food source and some are finding predators using them as a tool to catch prey

    Not going to be an issue in many other areas

  6. #16
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    I wonder if the huge increase in deer fences on orchards and vineyards in region 8 has been a factor in some MUs for deer. Took away a food source and some are finding predators using them as a tool to catch prey

    Not going to be an issue in many other areas
    Yup, the list of issues grows!
    That's just another one to show how we have altered the landscape.
    And, "how dare those creatures" actually come onto ranchland to graze!!
    Everybody, everyone one of us is guilty in some form of other for the issues.

  7. #17
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Look into the study done in Yaha Tinda predators are a huge factor bears playing a much larger role than wolves. Elk actually changed migration routes closer trying to avoid predators

    Habitat is pretty good and access is limited

    things are not cut and dry

  8. #18
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    As far as I know the critical habitat is based of a computer model and not any kind of on the ground survey to actually determine if caribou exist in the area or not

  9. #19
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    Look into the study done in Yaha Tinda predators are a huge factor bears playing a much larger role than wolves. Elk actually changed migration routes closer trying to avoid predators

    Habitat is pretty good and access is limited

    things are not cut and dry
    I know, it's a very big "complex" issue/s.
    But I suppose not all things can be completely corrected or "controlled".
    Life is adversity, and always changing, especially out in the forests.
    I suppose the only thing we can do is fix things we have done wrong and take control of them.
    Other stuff just has to run it's course.
    Wildfires will take care of some issues, but then again, it comes with issues long term itself.
    Always changing, and hopefully we can evolve with it.
    Otherwise we are doomed in ways we cant even yet begin to comprehend.
    Where at a time on this planet that previous inhabitants have never experienced or could have imagined.
    Not sure if we are smart enough, or should I say, willing enough to accept it and deal with it?

  10. #20
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    It is complex and change along with future maintenance is needed

    Unfortunately the push by most is one answer solutions. Hunters need to really think about these one solution agendas and the fact this is trying to apply this to BC the most bio diverse province in Canada. The natural habitat varies so much over a few hundred KMs and often the species along with it

    Really how can a place so diverse be solved with one solution

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