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Thread: Caribou and habitat.

  1. #21
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    It to say I but it's more complex than that even.
    It starts with the individual at home, what they purchase and consume and how we thro it away.
    It all effects what happens out there, how it used and how it will be kept up...or not.
    And yes, we have desserts and rain forests all in one province.
    Makes your head spin and it's still to early for a Scotch!

  2. #22
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    Look into the study done in Yaha Tinda predators are a huge factor bears playing a much larger role than wolves. Elk actually changed migration routes closer trying to avoid predators

    Habitat is pretty good and access is limited

    things are not cut and dry
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    It is complex and change along with future maintenance is needed

    Unfortunately the push by most is one answer solutions. Hunters need to really think about these one solution agendas and the fact this is trying to apply this to BC the most bio diverse province in Canada. The natural habitat varies so much over a few hundred KMs and often the species along with it

    Really how can a place so diverse be solved with one solution
    Yaha Elk were initially decimated by wolves, now bears are keeping elk from rebounding (calf predation).

    If there were no bears, the wolves would probably be killing those calves that the bears are getting to first.

    Southern Alberta Caribou herds survived industrial activity over the last hundred years, until intensive wolf and bear control was ceased.


    Here in Alberta we have places with piles of Elk, Moose, Whitetail and Mule Deer living together in strong numbers in a completely modified landscape comprised of extensive human use including extremely high road densities.

    What these places don't have are high numbers of big predators.


    The answer IS simple.
    Ugly and unacceptable to some, but Oh so simple.

  3. #23
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Makes your head spin and it's still to early for a Scotch!
    I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I beg to differ.

  4. #24
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    It is complex and change along with future maintenance is needed

    Unfortunately the push by most is one answer solutions. Hunters need to really think about these one solution agendas and the fact this is trying to apply this to BC the most bio diverse province in Canada. The natural habitat varies so much over a few hundred KMs and often the species along with it

    Really how can a place so diverse be solved with one solution
    It would be a damn good start. Bios have been trying to prove that climate change, logging, the Pine Beetle and every other imaginable dream has been decreasing caribou populations in this area for 35 years. We may finally have one that wants to prove to Govt. that wolves and bears have been doing most all of the killing.

    We have removed 14 wolves from our ranch this winter again. One left from the last pack left and now another 6 have moved in. You won't convince me there is a shortage of them. They actually collared a bunch here a month ago. The contractors were noted to say they didn't have to look far for subjects.

    Maybe once a balance is achieved we can talk about habitat.

  5. #25
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    That's one thing about National Parks.
    They will always be safe havens for wolves.
    Even if we do convince the government to re-involve itself in culling, we have to recognize that wolves will come back
    and as the numbers swell in those parks, eventually they need to expand territory.
    Crazy that they thought by killing moose in an area would help the problem of discouraging preds to go elsewhere.
    Only proved they will go elsewhere when easy prey is gone.
    Hopefully the ministry took that paper and put it into the junk pile of "to try list".
    Time to dig out the one that did work.

  6. #26
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    That's one thing about National Parks.
    They will always be safe havens for wolves.
    Even if we do convince the government to re-involve itself in culling, we have to recognize that wolves will come back
    and as the numbers swell in those parks, eventually they need to expand territory.
    Crazy that they thought by killing moose in an area would help the problem of discouraging preds to go elsewhere.
    Only proved they will go elsewhere when easy prey is gone.
    Hopefully the ministry took that paper and put it into the junk pile of "to try list".
    Time to dig out the one that did work.
    The thing is there are lot's of predators in national parks AND ungulates. Big difference is that there is no logging, and no roads being pushed through. When a fire burns it grows back the way it's supposed to, with mixed deciduous and conifers. Very patchy. No logging companies to spray round up and kill all the aspen and other browse. There are tens of thousands of acres sprayed to kill all the browse every year in BC, so it's almost surprising we have as many deer and moose as what we do.

  7. #27
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott h View Post
    The thing is there are lot's of predators in national parks AND ungulates. Big difference is that there is no logging, and no roads being pushed through. When a fire burns it grows back the way it's supposed to, with mixed deciduous and conifers. Very patchy. No logging companies to spray round up and kill all the aspen and other browse. There are tens of thousands of acres sprayed to kill all the browse every year in BC, so it's almost surprising we have as many deer and moose as what we do.
    https://www.fitzhugh.ca/roadside-elk-survey-results/
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  8. #28
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Buffalo View Post
    Yaha Elk were initially decimated by wolves, now bears are keeping elk from rebounding (calf predation).

    If there were no bears, the wolves would probably be killing those calves that the bears are getting to first.

    Southern Alberta Caribou herds survived industrial activity over the last hundred years, until intensive wolf and bear control was ceased.


    Here in Alberta we have places with piles of Elk, Moose, Whitetail and Mule Deer living together in strong numbers in a completely modified landscape comprised of extensive human use including extremely high road densities.

    What these places don't have are high numbers of big predators.


    The answer IS simple.
    Ugly and unacceptable to some, but Oh so simple.
    I was only sent the information about the bear impact on calf mortality from a friend who was surprised on the impact bears could have. Did not realize wolf was the main issue but can’t say I am surprised. There is no doubt in my mind predators are a big part of the decline in some populations.

    There is still population where predators are not the issue.

    Habitat impact from industry is not always an issue but it some parts of BC it’s had an impact. In my opinion these areas were it has been an issue are also areas where beetle kill and development are added to it. I have also seen how game thrives in parts of the oilfield. Lots of timber combined with strips from pipelines ungulates seem to thrive even with all the roads. Farmland we all know game often does

    Impacts can be made from habitat issues as well

    I realize both can be issues and in some areas one or both are not the main problem

  9. #29
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott h View Post
    The thing is there are lot's of predators in national parks AND ungulates. Big difference is that there is no logging, and no roads being pushed through. When a fire burns it grows back the way it's supposed to, with mixed deciduous and conifers. Very patchy. No logging companies to spray round up and kill all the aspen and other browse. There are tens of thousands of acres sprayed to kill all the browse every year in BC, so it's almost surprising we have as many deer and moose as what we do.
    Yup, I agree, although some could tell you that a park like Kootenay National Park isn't holding the ungulates, especially elk
    like it did in the 70's.
    They tried with fire, and it hasn't made a huge difference, at least form the Parks people who know the area well.
    Mind you, most of them weren't even born then??
    Lots of elk outside the park where logging happened.
    BUT the big difference was back then, logging was more "sporadic"!
    and that's how it was supposed to be. or at least, that's as much as they could log at the time.
    Changes in equipment and how they practice have changed a lot over the years.
    And sadly, requires less crew members, so less jobs, more timber down and lots of roads etc etc etc.

    Again, I think some things we can "generalize" as to "common issues" with game and many parts of
    BC.
    But like WildOne stated, BC is very diverse in habitat, and not everything is the same template as far as fixes go, imo.

  10. #30
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    Re: Caribou and habitat.

    Quote Originally Posted by gcreek View Post
    Any kind of habitat over run with predators does nothing for ungulates at all.
    I agree....there are many areas in our province that need habitat improvement, but we still need a pred cull big time, we need to continue to put pressure on our government to do so..

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