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Thread: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

  1. #31
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    Feb 2009
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    8,515

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourea View Post
    I've mentioned this on my Whitetail thread.......
    if you can't answer 'who, what, why, where and when you will have a hard time consistently killing better animals.

    This project is going to answer a lot of questions replacing educated guesses with quantified data.
    Better decision making will result.

    Where do these captured MD go after leaving their winter range?
    How far do they travel?
    What are the travel routes, do they avoid certain roadways etc?
    What is causing the high mortality specific to each fatality.
    When do most of the fatalities happen?
    When exactly do they move the most?

    Pretty exciting when you think about it.
    Yes it is.
    I think back in the day, we had an idea of their migration habits.
    But, lets face it, there has been a ton of changes to our landscapes in many ways.
    I think we will see some of those old ways of MD migration etc have changed.
    What is happening to fawns is extremely important, and I think we well see that mortality is happening in a lot of
    the year where we don't hunt.
    And for many, "what" is causing the mortality, especially on HBC where many different opinions exist.

    But then, I hope there is money to make the necessary changes!!???????????????????
    And will it be applied, not just another study that gets tossed into the storage cabinet!

  2. #32
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    Jun 2010
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    3,898

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    When a lot of hunters think of helping wildlife numbers they default to regulation as a magic wand that will help with recovery.

    Here is something to chew on......
    The boundary country has had an increase in hunting restrictions, rd closures, 4 point only etc, yet numbers continue to fall dramatically.
    Simply put, more restrictions allowing the majority of overall bucks not to be hunted has done nothing to slow the decline in numbers and buck to doe ratios.

    Harvest data from the region.
    Decrease in harvest yet still a decrease in numbers.

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    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


  3. #33
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    Mar 2006
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    Yucatan Mexico
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    14,832

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Not that I want to take away from the thinking here, as I do believe younger bucks do group up with does "much sooner"
    Sadly, this is all I saw in Novemer as well, on a couple of trips, fyi (4 separate 2pt's, all with atleast 6 does in each group)

    BUT.....
    I thought with the 1MD LIMIT this past season being introduced, that I would see "LESS HUNTERS"..NOPE!!!
    I actually saw more hunters during the Novemer/Dec 4 point season, especially the November long weekend.

    What I am say is, some who may have taken 2 bucks in previous seasons, 1 being a meat buck I suspect, and then
    the other to be a big boy attempt, have made a decision to "not hunt meat bucks"....

    It would be very interesting to see how many "less" younger bucks were taken who are not 4 points are harvested in the
    next few years "due to the 1 MD limit Change"!
    I am betting due to this new limit, less young bucks will be taken.
    We may "not need to shorten" that any buck season!!

    I have no clue what kind of stats are out there, as to MD harvest, and how many are taken that are not 4 point as
    compared to 4 pt in a season.
    Maybe they don't exist???

    I think the 1 MD change has already changed some hunters thinking and is changing what age bucks are taken because of it.
    I bet you there is going to be a decline in the amount of any bucks harvested, as some hunters will take more chances looking for the big one!

    I think people...hunters need to realize that we just had a significant regulation change!!!
    Does anyone expect that in 1 season of that change there is going to be dramatic changes to what you see out in the woods??!!
    Give it some time folks.

    More important right now is to figure out what is happening to the "offspring".
    Why are they not there by "next season" after this season has ended???
    FIX that, and then you will see a difference out there for the better!
    The summer of 2017 was the driest on record. The winter of 2017/18 was long and tough.
    We all know that summer moisture plays a key roll in fawn survival. Add the tough winter and I would bet that we lost a significant portion of the fawns....which the male portion of this would be the yearling bucks in the fall of 2018.

    I’m guessing that all those hunters that you saw in the late fall were ones that had a hard time finding a yearling 2 pt to shoot.

    SSS
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  4. #34
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    Jun 2010
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    3,898

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Walksalot View Post
    The way the mule deer disappeared goes, in my opinion, far beyond predation. Something had decimated the mule deer population and we had better find out what pretty soon. Had a discussion with a forester and we talked about the economic value of our forest and how logging can enhance habitat but I pointed out the poor buggers need a place to hide. As pointed out subdivisions on lower elevations above the valley bottoms are really impacting their winter ranges. My wife is sick of me commenting at every advertisement for residential subdivisions with spectacular views of the valley.
    Wildlife needs 2 key components to survive let alone thrive.
    1) Habitat
    2) Security
    (One can drill down further under these two headings with factors such as habitat fragmentation, resource extraction, loss of winter range, preds etc.)

    And Walksalot, we are destroying both.


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    600

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Thats what i was thinking as well,heavy snow pack in the Okanogan is detrimental to deer escapeing preditation from cyottes and wolves,especially the young.I hunt moose as well up in region 7 and see lots of doe yearling pairs when out yet our N.Okanogan hunt after moose last yr was almost devoid of seeing yearlings with doe's.Almost ALL dry doe's we encountered.One area in region 8 outside of westwold we seen at least 5-6 dry doe's per day no fawns.Anyone posting on this thread if you dont mind shareing if you had success juring any buck season up to oct 31st so we can get a feel for success rates.
    Oct 31 harvested a tall 2-point
    Who else had success?
    Pemby Quote: "Ah well ,cant be perfect" .... " sometimes i think that this tread is actually a wormhole to another dimension"

  6. #36
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    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yucatan Mexico
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    14,832

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Takla View Post
    Thats what i was thinking as well,heavy snow pack in the Okanogan is detrimental to deer escapeing preditation from cyottes and wolves,especially the young.I hunt moose as well up in region 7 and see lots of doe yearling pairs when out yet our N.Okanogan hunt after moose last yr was almost devoid of seeing yearlings with doe's.Almost ALL dry doe's we encountered.One area in region 8 outside of westwold we seen at least 5-6 dry doe's per day no fawns.Anyone posting on this thread if you dont mind shareing if you had success juring any buck season up to oct 31st so we can get a feel for success rates.
    Oct 31 harvested a tall 2-point
    Who else had success?
    In the early youth/bow season in reg 3 with my daughter this was the first year that we never saw a single muley buck. We always see yearling bucks ranging from several to 12-15 in a couple days.
    Most were yearlings but we see the odd group of older bucks if we are patient and look hard enough.

    Last year.... squat
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Squamish
    Posts
    481

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    I don't get as hunters why so many are not open to this research and studies AND actually implementing it and are so open to take away opportunities without thinking of other measures. Last I checked and the people I talk to the mule deer population in region 4 is still declining.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    region 3
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    3,290

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    I have been 4-5 days per week, (work related) in a classic Mule deer wintering area in region 3.
    Not alot of snow, only 12"-20" of snow, a few Moose tracks and increasing this past week, not sure why.....
    Mule deer are sparse although also increasing sign and I think they are simply moving down because of the recent snow we have had.

    Odd, no wolf sign but I bet it increases as more game moves in there from the higher ridges, a few cougars but no big deal.
    When I was logging in the same area 25 years ago I would see 10-15 deer or more, everyday at this time of year and tracks everywhere.

    There is a road every 1-2km and I can see for miles, basically there is FA for game, hasn't been a fire in there in my lifetime, bugs killed all the trees too, no fires will do that.
    I think we will pull out of it and it will be good times again so long as we are not regulated to an end....

  9. #39
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    Feb 2009
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    8,515

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Sadly I think some have just be trained to think that more regs are the only thing that will help wildlife.
    In one way, you cant blame them because for years now, that was the only action left to give us.
    For years the money has never been there and talking to some Bio's from days gone by (now retired), a lot of the few
    projects they did in the day that were beneficial dried up and stop happening for one reason or other.

    Since then, we've been on our own.
    Everything changing all around us year in and year out, and all we ever had to address it was with regs.
    Short term they can help areas were a species might be hurting.
    But long term, they never stand the test of time....proven over and over, again and again.

  10. #40
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    Oct 2012
    Location
    region 9
    Posts
    11,528

    Re: Mule deer study in the Okanagan

    Aside from more and more loss of winter range due to development in reg 8, I should also state that I'm hearing of an increase in cougar population - and we know that the cats will make a big dent in mule deer pops...these factors along with lack of burns I believe are the biggest contributing factors to mule deer declines in reg 8..

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