Single-layer rain pants or rain pants over normal pants?

[zippermouth]

ill never use a gore tex pant again. i just run cheap helly hansen rubber rain gear. think it costs slightly over 100 when i bought them, like 120 for pants and coat. sure they dont breath but they keep you dry. i find i sweat just as much in goretex as those so why spent the excessive amount of money on the goretex. i think the model were voss that i picked up, they are really lightweight so for a ton of bush whacking if you are not overly careful you will put holes in them. when i was prepping for our sheep hunt last year and weighing all my gear my sitka stormfront pants were really close to the same weight as these.

[REMINGTON JIM]

https://www.froggtoggs.com/mens/ RJ

[boxhitch]

.......Kootenay area, October-end of season theres enough dew/snow built up on vegetation that 10 minutes after walking the bush the water is running down into your boots.

I'd prefer the simplicity of rain proof main pants, but are they going to be too hot/non-breathable if you get some warm late fall weather?

Any thoughts or recommendations?

So damp mornings with dry warm mid day ? anything non-cotton will dew.
Save the full-on rain gear for when its really wet.
Microtex is fast drying and very breathable, but does soak through.
MTO50 is warmer heavier and holds water but is usually dry underneath.

Lots of softshell pants out recently, some are even not black.
So many options for different needs.

[Salty]

I bought a pair of Cabelas dry plus micro fleece pants close to 10 years ago on a year end clearance sale. not because I hunted them down really. I wasn't really expecting much but they're almost 10 years old now very worn, singed around the ankles from fires (worst flaw, they burn easy) but a bit of duct tape keeps them in use. I always pack a pair or two of rubber rain pants in the truck but never use them it seems. These old pants are true to their name I've been out in many proper upper coast monsoons in them and they are great you stay dry. If you sit or kneel on something wet for a long time though water will wick through but that's the only way it does, and the lightness agility and comfort of not sweating with the micro fleece makes it worth it.

[Pemby_mess]

ill never use a gore tex pant again. i just run cheap helly hansen rubber rain gear. think it costs slightly over 100 when i bought them, like 120 for pants and coat. sure they dont breath but they keep you dry. i find i sweat just as much in goretex as those so why spent the excessive amount of money on the goretex. i think the model were voss that i picked up, they are really lightweight so for a ton of bush whacking if you are not overly careful you will put holes in them. when i was prepping for our sheep hunt last year and weighing all my gear my sitka stormfront pants were really close to the same weight as these.

I couldn't imagine walking up a mountain in polyurethane coated rain gear....ugh. Some people sweat more than others I guess; I'd be soaked from the inside, long before I got anywhere.

Goretex: Gore is a brand name for one particular type of membrane fabric. It's an example of textile technology. So like all technology, there is a learning curve, and needs to be used in the appropriate application for optimum performance.

Not all membrane fabrics have equal performance to one an other. Even within the Goretex brand, there are different fabrics for different applications. Arc'teryx once again, has worked in conjunction with Goretex, designing their own Goretex membrane fabrics to meet the brand's own design specifications. They tend to have a better breathability than even the Goretex being used in most other brands, and a more resilient DWR coating.

Even within the Arcteryx Goretex lineup, there are 2 layer membranes, 3 layer membranes, and the latest generation "pro shell membranes". The latter offers the best performance but also, ridiculous prices. It is heavier than the other examples as well. There are other high performance brands that make WB fabrics such as Event, and all sorts of brand specific proprietary fabrics, delivering mixed performance. Obviously a clothing brand that manufactures its own high performance textiles is going to have to cut corners as opposed to a specialty manufacturer.

For a waterproof breathable membrane to work effectively; there needs to be something called "vapour pressure" within the membrane. This basically means that water vapour is flowing in one direction through the fabric, induced by a temperature/RH differential on either side. Many WB membranes perform poorly in relatively warm, high humidity conditions. The colder, and lower the humidity in the outside air, the greater the membrane performance becomes, owed to your inherent body heat/perspiration setting up a differential on the inside face vs the outside face. This condition results in high vapour pressure, and drives moisture to the atmosphere outside the clothing.

Wetting out: The DWR coating on the outside face of the fabric is what prevents liquid water ingress into the fabric. If this occurs, vapour pressures will be reduced, and the fabric won't effectively transport moisture out of the garment. You know the DWR treatment is performing as intended when the water on the outside face, beads up and rolls off. DWR treatments can be renewed in a home dryer, and are guaranteed by some manufacturers.

For goretex pants I always make sure the one's I buy have full length zippers down the legs for 2 reasons:

1. So I can effortlessly pull them on over whatever else I'm wearing, without having to take off boots and gaiters.

2. The full length side zips should have two zipper pulls. these can be separated for adjustable, full length, mechanical ventilation. If I'm wearing goretex on a warm wet morning, hiking up hill, the membrane fabric sheds the water off the front of my legs, while I can sweat to my heart's content out the side vents, still keeping my soft-shells underneath bone dry.

[Bugle M In]

Gore Tex is a great product compared to most products BUT depends on the Product also.
I have had Meindls that are GoreTex and never had a leak period, but they are heavy boots.
Had Red Wings that were GoreTex, but as soon as the sole lifted a bit, wet feet!
(only bought them for their lightweight for MD and elk)

Browning original had a lot of gear with Goretex and were one of the first Co's to supply decent warm hunting gear with
GoreTex.
Eventually, like most companies, they wanted to be price competitive and came out with their own sort of breathable
waterproof products, like PreVent, DryPlus.
Don't waste your time, as the DryPlus leaks badly, and quickly after very few uses.
PreVent doesn't breathe like they say it does.
What make the difference with Goretex depends on the manufacturer of the product you are buying.
Reason why Sitka uses it at times, and why it works.
Rubber rain gear, well it works, as long as you are just sitting there, haven't heated up too much before you put it on etc.
But to hike in it, well forget it, you will be soaked from condensation from your own sweat.
(Reason why most of my under gear is some form of polyester, to dry quickly)

But, I don't rely on just my main hunting gear, that is goretex, as full on rain gear.
I have it to stay drier in snowy conditions and for those odd light rain times everyone surely experiences when you are out all day.
But, in a downpour, or a day where it rains all day, you have to have some form of outerwear raingear.
Especially if you are in the middle of nowhere, like fly in hunt!
Close to camp or truck, okay, you can go back etc, but not on top of a mountain hunting goat, sheep.
Personally, I like to hunt al day, and being miles away from camp when it rains, I have the gear, so I stay out there.
Last thing I want to do is go back to camp to get/stay dry.
I even pack a light weight parachute type tarp in my mtn bike saddle bags.
For those days it gets too hot or too wet! and want to take a nap.

[Pemby_mess]

Don't waste your time, as the DryPlus leaks badly, and quickly after very few uses.

An other innovation from Arcteryx originally, but now also being followed by others; are welded/taped seams. Something to look for with with high end waterproof gear regardless the type of membrane used. If the seams are traditionally stitched, they will leak. High end gear worth buying, will have heat welded membrane seams, and the back of the seam is then taped, so that they're completely sealed. Also look for high quality, sealed zippers. Zippers are a common failure point in waterproof gear.

[Fosey]

There is a guy selling kuiu chugach rain pants on this site. I have the kuiuyukon
jacket and it is great. No sweating while you are climbing. I have Sitka cloudburst rain pants and they are good also.
Buy them secondhand and they are affordable.