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Thread: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

  1. #21
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    Dec 2008
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    601

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by jagen mit DDrs View Post
    If they Pointers and Labs would be so versatile then why did the good ole germans develope gundogs to do it all??Haven't seen any labs or pointers that point birds or indepenently search and flush game in wooded areas,track fur,feather and big game,work in packs to search and hold boars,blood track (20/40 hour bloodtrack),dead game bay,guide and bringsel guide dead game,retrieve on land and water,have enough sharpness for predators,retrieve foxes,work close in cover and extend in open country,run rabbits and bring such in front of hunter,be scent and/or sight loud...just to name a few of the atributes.
    When we are talking versatile ,we are not talking "social work or community service".
    The Versatile dogs over here are relegated as a bird dog and most of them will never have the opportunity to show their full potential as a versatile gun dog.
    Not to be disparaging,but you lab guys have limited experience with versatile hunting dogs!!
    Just so you're aware, Foxton is a Spaniel guy...not a lab guy. He also stated earlier he's had first hand experience with versatiles.......maybe you missed that part too.

    Look, I'm sure the so called "Versatiles" are fine dogs that do many things well. Probably more suited to the old country and their type of hunting than what we do here.
    Last edited by labguy; 01-22-2019 at 09:44 PM.
    "Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donel fat"

  2. #22
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    Jul 2016
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    127

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    The term versatile or "vielseitig"is refered to strictly as ability to work a variety of gun dog related tasks.I'm sure the Germans in search for a versatile breed had not "guide dog for the blind in mind.
    And FYI there are more and more versatiles used in Military/Police and Search and Rescue in Europe as well.
    I'm not breed blind by any stretch of the imagination and I respect any well trained gundog no matter what bre ed or purpose but a Lab in its intended purpose and a DD,DK,PP,KLM or LH in his intended purpose are two different pair a shoes.
    I invite you to come up on A VGP test to see for yourself....these dogs a trained in the german system and not North american single purpose tests.
    The reason versatiles in this country are' lacking'is because as I said before,due to their relegation as a birddog only.
    P.S.I know that Flushers have to work relatively close otherwise it would defy the purpose.....getting a flushing bird 100yds away.

  3. #23
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    Jul 2016
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    127

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by labguy View Post
    Just so you're aware, Foxton is a Spaniel guy...not a lab guy. He also stated earlier he's had first hand experience with versatiles.......maybe you missed that part too.
    .
    We already established,versatile in North america and versatile in Europe is totally different,
    A gundog in Germany and Austria has to have performance tests in order to be allowed to be used,and has to show in performance tests that it is capable to perform all the tasks mentioned,whereas here you can take a Pomeranian hunting.
    A Gwp or a Gsp in North America can hardly be called a versatile hunting dog.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    402

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton Gundogs View Post
    "social work or community service". Why there is nothing in the term versatile that denotes hunting only, true versatility takes many forms. If you haven't seen Labs(or Goldens) hunting and flushing game in wooded areas you really need to get out more lol. We all love our breeds but lets be honest the average Lab in North America takes on and is competent in more jobs than your average Wirehair, Shorthair, Griff, Vizsla etc. Tout yur chosen breed all you like but don't sell labs short on versatility.
    But there is, Jim. When you are talking about the versatility of hunting dogs every reference to it has to do with hunting. To this day, there has never been a versatile bird dog developed in North America,,,,they were all developed in Europe. The North America Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) lists all the breeds that make the list,,,,the lab is not on it because it is a retriever, doesn't point, and doesn't hunt small game near as efficiently.

    https://www.navhda.org/registry/vers...ing-dog-breeds

    https://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2002/09/do-everything-dog
    Last edited by mastercaster; 01-22-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  5. #25
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    Jul 2016
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    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Even NAVHDA test don't bring out the versatility of a true Versatile gun dog.They cover a fraction of a true versatile gun dog.No fur,no bloodtracking,no indepenent seaches,no fox work,no cover work,etc. Pretty single minded......birds only.

  6. #26
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    Oct 2010
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    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by jagen mit DDrs View Post
    Even NAVHDA test don't bring out the versatility of a true Versatile gun dog.They cover a fraction of a true versatile gun dog.No fur,no bloodtracking,no indepenent seaches,no fox work,no cover work,etc. Pretty single minded......birds only.
    They do pretty good bunny hunting, though. Can't say as I know any lab owners who take their dogs out to specifically hunt rabbits.



    Lots of owners of versatiles do expose their dogs to tracking game, though, using blood trails.

    And even though I knew where I had basically dropped a few coyotes this past hunting season, my dog didn't because she was in her crate. It sure didn't take her long to track them, though.

    IMG_1470 by Brent Davy, on Flickr
    Last edited by mastercaster; 01-22-2019 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    So what you are saying is Versitiles here in NA are basically pointing dogs who are capable of doing several kinds of hunting. IE questing and retrieving. Well so are labs(granted most are flushing dogs but pointer or flusher is a matter of personal choice) either type are proficient at upland hunting in their own specialty. When it comes to retrieving the Lab has no equal(except MAYBE the Chessy), where as the Versatile is an adequate retriever. In North America most breeds are versitile but IMHO Labs and Goldens are the real Versatiles on this continent. But hey support the breed you have chosen because when it comes down to it all dogs are special in their own right
    "BORN TO HUNT"
    Foxton's Cuervo Gold "KEELA" Oct. 2004-June 2017. Always in my blind and my heart.

  8. #28
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    Oct 2010
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    402

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton Gundogs View Post
    So what you are saying is Versitiles here in NA are basically pointing dogs who are capable of doing several kinds of hunting. IE questing and retrieving. Well so are labs(granted most are flushing dogs but pointer or flusher is a matter of personal choice) either type are proficient at upland hunting in their own specialty. When it comes to retrieving the Lab has no equal(except MAYBE the Chessy), where as the Versatile is an adequate retriever. In North America most breeds are versitile but IMHO Labs and Goldens are the real Versatiles on this continent. But hey support the breed you have chosen because when it comes down to it all dogs are special in their own right
    I'm not so sure you could call versatiles just adequate when it comes to retrieving, Jim. I hunted a few times with a guy who owns a DD and we had a few birds we dropped that glided down into swampy marsh grass as much as a 100 yards away. My pup had difficulty finding some since this was her first year, albeit she still found most of the ones she was sent out solo to find.

    My friend's DD found the ones she had missed ,,,,so if a dog never gives up on a blind retrieve, doesn't lose birds, can mark a second bird, follows hand signals, holds and brings birds to hand I don't think I would classify its retrieving ability as adequate. As far as being able to withstand the weather the under coat of the wire hairs allows them to swim icy waters without getting cold.

    I'm curious as to what more the lab would do that the versatile didn't/couldn't? I do believe that labs and Chesapeakes are stronger retrievers ,,,,but I also think the versatiles are good retrievers, as well, and can get the job done.

    I know my pup isn't at the top of her game yet because she lacks experience but I feel pretty confident she will get there once she gets another season under her belt.

  9. #29
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    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Brent I'm not dissing anyone's dog. You notice that although I'm a Spaniel man, I'm not comparing them to Labs. When it comes to retrieving Labs VS Springers(or the Versatiles) this comparison applies. I play golf, Jack Nicholas plays golf. At the end of the day we both make it to the 19th hole. And in the long run what more matters.
    "BORN TO HUNT"
    Foxton's Cuervo Gold "KEELA" Oct. 2004-June 2017. Always in my blind and my heart.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    285

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    So after this discussion, I hope someone can inquire about a breed other than a lab and not get jumped on.��

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