Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 93

Thread: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton Gundogs View Post
    Absolutely no such thing Labs Come in Yellow, Chocolate and Black period.
    That's not true, Jim. They definitely exist. In fact, there are silver labs that are now registered in a number of kennel clubs around the world, AKC for one. They are registered as a diluted chocolate, though, when it comes to colour but the argument as to whether it is a purebred dog is definitely out there. Is it a cross breed (weimaraner and lab) or has the "D gene" that affects the colouring of the dog been introduced into the breeding??

    My guess it's likely the cross breeding so in essence it's no different than another very common registered breed that has taken over the market,,,,,the labradoodle. Because I think it's a cross breed, I don't considered it a lab but it is now considered a new breed of dog called the silver lab. It will be interesting to see if it eventually becomes as popular as the labradoodle. It'll probably be bought more for the unique colour instead of it's ability to hunt is my thought on the subject.

    Here's some info:

    https://www.labradortraininghq.com/l...dor-retriever/

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cedar B.C.
    Posts
    6,999

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by mastercaster View Post
    That's not true, Jim. They definitely exist. In fact, there are silver labs that are now registered in a number of kennel clubs around the world, AKC for one. They are registered as a diluted chocolate, though, when it comes to colour but the argument as to whether it is a purebred dog is definitely out there. Is it a cross breed (weimaraner and lab) or has the "D gene" that affects the colouring of the dog been introduced into the breeding??

    My guess it's likely the cross breeding so in essence it's no different than another very common registered breed that has taken over the market,,,,,the labradoodle. Because I think it's a cross breed, I don't considered it a lab but it is now considered a new breed of dog called the silver lab. It will be interesting to see if it eventually becomes as popular as the labradoodle. It'll probably be bought more for the unique colour instead of it's ability to hunt is my thought on the subject.

    Here's some info:

    https://www.labradortraininghq.com/l...dor-retriever/
    Sorry Brent but you are the one that is wrong see the CKC, The Kennel Club(GB) and AKC lab color descriptions below.
    CKC
    Colour
    "Labradors may be black, yellow or chocolate in colour."

    AKC
    Color

    "Additionally, the American Kennel Club recognizes only Labradors which are black, chocolate, or yellow. The AKC standard for the Labrador specifically states: "The Labrador retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate."

    THE KENNEL CLUB
    Colour

    "The only correct colours are wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox. Small white spot on chest and the rear of front pasterns permissible"
    "BORN TO HUNT"
    Foxton's Cuervo Gold "KEELA" Oct. 2004-June 2017. Always in my blind and my heart.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    I'm just the messenger on this but there's lots of literature on the topic. The reason that the silver labs are being registered by some kennel clubs is because they are considered a dilute shade of chocolate and are registered under that colour classification accorsing to the research I've found.

    Where Did The Silver Labrador Retriever Come From?

    Until perhaps the 1950s, the silver-colored lab was completely unseen or if it was then it was probably culled at birth.
    However, as told by Jack Vanderwyk over at LabradorNet.com: “In the 1950s a gun dog magazine published an advertisement from Kellogg’s kennels, in which they announced a litter of ‘rare gray Labradors’.”
    These rare gray Labradors were what we know today as silvers.
    So where did the silver Labrador come from? After researching the subject, I’ve been able to find only anecdotal accounts of the color being seen from the late 1920s onward. And here is the curious thing…
    They Seem To Have Come Out Of Nowhere!

    Since the early history of Labradors back in the 1800s; From times when other breeds were being crossed into the St Johns Dog to ‘improve’ the breed; From the times before the Labrador was even recognized by the major kennel clubs and became an official breed…The silver (or gray) color was never mentioned in any kennels accounts.
    You see, a great number of kennels kept very detailed records of their breeding programs and the color of puppies they found in litters.
    Almost everybody strived for the blacks of the breed, but there is mention in these books of various colors such as yellows, chocolates, vitiligos, brindles, black and tans…but never is there mention of a silver, gray or dilute color dog. They seem to have appeared from nowhere!
    A Worldwide Controversy

    The UK kennel club formalized the breed in 1903 and the American Kennel club in 1917. Prior to this, no breeders ever recorded a silver or gray Labrador found within their litters, even though they were happy to record many other ‘off color’ dogs that didn’t adhere to the standard.
    And yet 4 decades later in the 1950s, all of a sudden, silver Labradors were being advertised for sale in gun dog magazine.
    For these facts, many people believe that the dilute d gene was introduced into the Labrador breed long after the standards were set. And so many believe the Silver Labrador Retriever simply cannot be a pure bred Labrador!
    Do They Contain Weimaraner Genes?

    The major belief is that the dilute d gene was introduced into the breed by cross breeding with Weimaraners. This breed always carries the dilute d gene and have the distinctive silver, gray or dilute color.
    Photo credit: © Depositphotos.com / prschreyner
    The possibility of outcrossing with Weimaraners quite rightly outrages Labrador breeding purists. A Labrador has the look, temperament and disposition of a Labrador and not a Spaniel or a Mastiff simply because the breeding lines are kept pure.
    The very idea of a breed standard is to set out a blueprint for the breed that all must adhere to. The very essence of the Labrador breed is only maintained by the strict attention to the pedigree and blood lines of Labradors by dedicated and responsible breeders.
    If people started to introduce genes just to change the color of a breed then this whole system would break down. There would be no pure breeds, just cross breeds or mongrels.
    In my research, I’ve been unable to find any concrete evidence that the silvers contain Weimaraner genes. It will be interesting to keep an eye on this story as it unveils in the coming years.
    Is The Silver Labrador Retriever Recognized As A Pure Breed?

    Although many believe the Silver Labrador Retriever isn’t a pure breed and pour scorn upon the breeders that produce them, you can actually register them as a pedigree in some countries.
    The American Kennel Club allows registration of silver Labradors as chocolate. This is mainly because most silvers (not all as explained later) are a diluted chocolate color.
    The UK Kennel Club allows registration of silver Labradors but requires they be registered as ‘non-recognized’.

    Do The Traditional Color Breeders Accept The Silver Labrador As A Purebred?

    The majority of the breeders of the traditional colors believe the Silver Labrador Doesn’t exist. There is a ‘silver dog’ that looks like a Lab, this cannot be argued, but it shouldn’t be recognized as a Labrador.
    The controversy surrounding the origins of the color, with the possibility of Weimaraner genes having been introduced angers them. And if true, it does go against the breed standard so they’d be right to be angry.
    But breeders of the Silver Labrador argue that it is a pure bred Labrador. In many cases, the ancestry can be traced back through a few generations of pedigree dogs and the silvers litter mates are registered as pedigree, so the silvers should be able to as well.

    So as I see it, the kennel clubs that are registering these silver labs are doing so because they are classifying the colour as a diluted shade of chocolate, As I said in my other two posts on the this topic, I don't consider these silver labs "Labrador Retrievers" because I still think it's a cross bred dog but I don't doubt that it will be considered it's own breed one day. After all, just about all the versatiles out there that are named breeds came about because of the mixed breeding of several types of hunting dogs. For example, when Korthal developed the wirehaired pointing griffon back in the late 1800s he did so by carefully breeding at least 4 different breeds of dog (setters, retrievers, pointers, otter hounds).
    Last edited by mastercaster; 01-24-2019 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cedar B.C.
    Posts
    6,999

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Brent by your last paragraph you nailed it. They are NOT "silver labs" they are chocolates. All breeds were developed by cross breeding but to become a breed they MUST go through a rigorous breeding program with meticulous records kept and merciless culling program. Even then they become a "developing breed" not a recognized breed. Bottom line is you can give a dog any cutesy name you want, If it isn't recognized by the major kennel clubs it isn't so.
    "BORN TO HUNT"
    Foxton's Cuervo Gold "KEELA" Oct. 2004-June 2017. Always in my blind and my heart.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    239

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by BriarPatch View Post
    Thanks for all the info.
    I had the chance to work with a weimarainer once and it was quite a dog but after a few comments on here and more research I do not think they would be great for BC. I think that maybe a DD would be a better choice.
    Nick,it always depends what you primarily hunt,Dk or Weimaraner,although their coat is shorter have no problem going into water in the late season and for upland birds....it would'nt matter at all.They do just fine.But nevertheless,if a DD is your choice......you know what I think of it.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    874

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton Gundogs View Post
    Sorry Brent but you are the one that is wrong see the CKC, The Kennel Club(GB) and AKC lab color descriptions below.
    CKC
    Colour
    "Labradors may be black, yellow or chocolate in colour."

    AKC
    Color

    "Additionally, the American Kennel Club recognizes only Labradors which are black, chocolate, or yellow. The AKC standard for the Labrador specifically states: "The Labrador retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate."

    THE KENNEL CLUB
    Colour

    "The only correct colours are wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox. Small white spot on chest and the rear of front pasterns permissible"

    Jim, You are absolutely correct that there is no such thing as a Silver Lab. They came about through fraud.

    However, they are now registered as Labs because some slime ball breeder a few years back slipped a Weim into the mix to get a desired color and didn't disclose it when registering. (Falsified the litter registration) In other words obtained registration by lying about the parentage.

    The dilute gene ( which only comes from Weims) that mastercaster talks about in his post, is only present in Silvers and not in real Labs.

    The Labrador breeders association is working hard to remove this *******ization from the registry. Any reputable breeder will tell you that Silvers (any Lab who carries the dilute gene) are NOT Labs.

    There are now more than a few low life breeders peddling these things as real Labs....absolute, pure unadulterated bullshit.
    "Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donel fat"

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,247

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by labguy View Post
    Jim, You are absolutely correct that there is no such thing as a Silver Lab. They came about through fraud.

    However, they are now registered as Labs because some slime ball breeder a few years back slipped a Weim into the mix to get a desired color and didn't disclose it when registering. (Falsified the litter registration) In other words obtained registration by lying about the parentage.

    The dilute gene ( which only comes from Weims) that mastercaster talks about in his post, is only present in Silvers and not in real Labs.

    The Labrador breeders association is working hard to remove this *******ization from the registry. Any reputable breeder will tell you that Silvers (any Lab who carries the dilute gene) are NOT Labs.

    There are now more than a few low life breeders peddling these things as real Labs....absolute, pure unadulterated bullshit.
    Here is some info explaining these colour genes:

    A Brief Summary of 9 ‘Traditional’ Variants

    According to traditionalists (as I’m maybe erroneously calling them) There are only 9 possible combinations of coat color gene pairings (actually 16, but 7 are repeated just in a different order) which result in the following coat colors:
    eeBB, eeBb, eebb = A yellow lab (If an ‘ee’ pairing is present, the lab will always be yellow regardless of the ‘B’ or ‘b’ gene combination.)
    EEBB, EeBB, EEBb, EeBb = A black lab (With at least one ‘E’ and ‘B’ present, the lab will always be black regardless of the other 2 allele in the genes.)
    EEbb, Eebb = A chocolate lab (With at least one ‘E’ present, and a ‘bb’ pairing the lab will always be chocolate.)
    You can see this in an easy to read diagram, along with the possible litters that would result from the 81 possible mating combinations, in this informative article from labbies.com: Coat Color Inheritance In The Labrador Retriever
    So where does the dilute color come in? It isn’t mentioned above?
    It is a less discussed gene that’s responsible for creating the Silver Labrador Retriever.
    The ‘d’ Gene is Responsible For The ‘Dilute Color’

    The ‘D’ gene is always present in labs, usually in a pairing of two ‘DD’ allele.
    But there exists a recessive ‘d’ allele that results in a dilute color if two of them are present, as a ‘dd’ gene.
    The ‘D’ allele is dominant, and if present always results in a solid coat color (non-dilute) regardless of whether the 2nd allele in the pair is a ‘d’ or not.
    So there are 3 different possibilities:

    1. DD pairing = Solid color, no dilute gene present. (And no matter the subsequent breeding, a dilute will not be found in the litter.)
    2. Dd pairing = Solid color, dilute factored, one dominant ‘D’ present and one recessive dilute ‘d’ allele present. (And if 2 non-dilute ‘Dd’ carrying labs mate, they could have some ‘dd’ pairings in their litter and hence produce dilute lab puppies.)
    3. dd pairing = A dilute color lab, 2 dilute ‘d’ genes present. (And if mated with a DD lab, no dilutes will be in the litter. If mated with a Dd carrier, dilute labs could appear in the litter.)

    It’s argued that ‘pure labradors’ can only have a ‘DD’ pairing, never a ‘dilute factored‘ ‘Dd’ that can pass on the dilute gene, and certainly never be an actual dilute color carrying the ‘dd’ pairing.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cedar B.C.
    Posts
    6,999

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    [QUOTE=labguy;2068084]Jim, You are absolutely correct that there is no such thing as a Silver Lab. They came about through fraud.
    The Labrador breeders association is working hard to remove this *******ization from the registry. Any reputable breeder will tell you that Silvers (any Lab who carries the dilute gene) are NOT Labs.

    QUOTE]


    It can't happen soon enough bostardization of any breed is just garbage. If you want to make a "new" breed do it the proper way not by exploiting and bostardizing an established one. Should be pretty easy to determine with simple DNA, they do it with horses all the time.
    Last edited by Foxton Gundogs; 01-24-2019 at 08:10 PM.
    "BORN TO HUNT"
    Foxton's Cuervo Gold "KEELA" Oct. 2004-June 2017. Always in my blind and my heart.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    VI
    Posts
    2,643

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by labguy View Post
    Jim, You are absolutely correct that there is no such thing as a Silver Lab. They came about through fraud.

    However, they are now registered as Labs because some slime ball breeder a few years back slipped a Weim into the mix to get a desired color and didn't disclose it when registering. (Falsified the litter registration) In other words obtained registration by lying about the parentage.

    The dilute gene ( which only comes from Weims) that mastercaster talks about in his post, is only present in Silvers and not in real Labs.

    The Labrador breeders association is working hard to remove this *******ization from the registry. Any reputable breeder will tell you that Silvers (any Lab who carries the dilute gene) are NOT Labs.

    There are now more than a few low life breeders peddling these things as real Labs....absolute, pure unadulterated bullshit.
    The worst part is silver breeders breed for $$$ and that's it. IF that wasn't the case, and they actually cared about the breed, they wouldn't exist. I have seen silvers for sale for $2500. totally unreal. All silvers should be culled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Brawler View Post
    Just lob a couple loaded mouse traps at em like you're playing horse shoes. More humane than bouncing darts off them.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    239

    Re: New Hunting Dog Spaniel/Weimarainer Any Experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by lorneparker1 View Post
    . All silvers should be culled.
    I think we should cull the breeders.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •