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Thread: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

  1. #1
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    Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    So I'm just putting this out there for people to think about. I don't want this to turn into a BCWF bashing thread. If you do that, it'll be locked up, which will kill the conversation. And that's what needs to happen, so bare with me.

    The BCWF has become irrelevant with a lot of hunters. I think that's pretty uncontroversial. I've often wondered what percentage of members actually are members because it was automatic with their membership in a local gun range. Hunters generally are not drawn to the organization. Why? It's my opinion, because we don't really see them doing anything when it counts. Let me give you an example;

    The Grizzly hunt was closed down because of a supposed poll that indicated 90% of British Columbians didn't support the hunt. I disagreed with that for a number of reasons. First, the poll was designed, (from my understanding) to make a decision on meat retention. Secondly, the methodology behind the poll was flawed. You could vote if you weren't even from BC, (perhaps Europe or Asia) and you could vote as many times as you liked. The poll was also sponsored by three Anti-hunting or Eco-tourist organizations. This made me phuking furious.

    Now I believe the BCWF responded to this in the usual way. They wrote a letter(s) to Horgan and perhaps others.....and here we are. I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been better to take out a quarter to half page ad in the Sun and Province basically saying "We disagree with this and here's the reasons why". In my mind, this closure was based on clear fraud. And yes, the BCWF articulated some of that to the politicians, but not the public. I say, whatever our concern, whether low mule deer habitat, the Grizzly closure, dwindling Caribou numbers, we take the argument to the voter. And we do that not by writing letters to communicate with the politicians, but by using the media. Making our case to the people. And we're going to have to pay because when they call and interview the BCWF, it's not the same as advertising.

    I realize advertising in a major paper is expensive. But I just wonder how many of us would dig into our pockets over and above the membership fee and pay for well done advertisment that addressed our concerns directly; no political double speak or fear of offending, just an honest foot forward. For a well articulated position outlining the fraud that took place to close the Grizzly hunt, I would have donated......and I'm a cheap phuker. And if the major papers are too expensive. There are literally hundreds of smaller local new outlets.

    I'm just trying to start a conversation. I don't have all the answers.

    To the BCWF. We have dwindling Caribou herds. We're concerned about Mule deer numbers. We're concerned about how the Grizzly bear hunt was cut. We're concerned about predation. We're concerned about a whole host of things. Pick one. Any one. Develop an advertisement articulating our concerns. Tell us how much.......and ask for it. And put our concerns in front of the people......and not the politicians. Politicians have gotten us no where. All they are concerned about is votes. Well, the people are the votes. Those are the people we need to talk too.
    Last edited by 180grainer; 11-29-2018 at 08:38 PM.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

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  3. #2
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    I'm a BCWF member through my club, but I would be a member anyway if I didn't have club affiliation. Membership is inexpensive, especially compared to virtually every other aspect of outdoor recreation. I want to contribute to a conservation organization, and only a few(BCWF, WSSOBC) line up with my beliefs, most of them are emotional preservation groups.

    Whenever there is a controversy like banning grizzly hunting or handguns or semi automatics I often see people saying "what is the BCWF/pro gun group etc DOING FOR ME?" When they should be asking "how can I help (insert org here) with this problem? It's all well and good for an org to contact politicians about an issue, but what politicians really need is to be bombarded with letters from individual voters supporting the orgs position.

    With the NDP/Green gvt, there really was no way the grizzly hunt was going to remain. I don't think we can point our fingers at anyone other than Weaver and Horgan.

    A PR campaign for hunters is a good idea, but buying newspaper ads is pointless. Newspapers barely have any readership anymore. An intelligent PR campaign that is shared via social media is the best way to address this.

    Every year I do my own social media pro hunting campaign on my facebook page. I have lots of non hunter and urban friends so I feel it's important to portray hunting in a positive manner to them. Although it's tempting to take a trophy pic and toss it up on social media so your hunter friends can see, I don't put up any pictures until I can control the direction of the inevitable conversation. Basically, I start with pictures of the hunt, the journey, then show the dead animals, then show a picked clean carcass, meat hanging and finally meals cooked and sausage made. People see hunting to be murdering Cecil the Lion and posing for a trophy pic, then cutting his head off to mount some rich guys rec room.. What they really need to see is Cecil the Lion butchered up and it's meat being enjoyed by hungry locals.
    Knowledgeable shooters agree- The 375 Ruger is the NEW KING of all 375 caliber cartridges. ALL HAIL THE NEW KING!

  4. #3
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Gateholio View Post
    I'm a BCWF member through my club, but I would be a member anyway if I didn't have club affiliation. Membership is inexpensive, especially compared to virtually every other aspect of outdoor recreation. I want to contribute to a conservation organization, and only a few(BCWF, WSSOBC) line up with my beliefs, most of them are emotional preservation groups.

    Whenever there is a controversy like banning grizzly hunting or handguns or semi automatics I often see people saying "what is the BCWF/pro gun group etc DOING FOR ME?" When they should be asking "how can I help (insert org here) with this problem? It's all well and good for an org to contact politicians about an issue, but what politicians really need is to be bombarded with letters from individual voters supporting the orgs position.

    With the NDP/Green gvt, there really was no way the grizzly hunt was going to remain. I don't think we can point our fingers at anyone other than Weaver and Horgan.

    A PR campaign for hunters is a good idea, but buying newspaper ads is pointless. Newspapers barely have any readership anymore. An intelligent PR campaign that is shared via social media is the best way to address this.

    Every year I do my own social media pro hunting campaign on my facebook page. I have lots of non hunter and urban friends so I feel it's important to portray hunting in a positive manner to them. Although it's tempting to take a trophy pic and toss it up on social media so your hunter friends can see, I don't put up any pictures until I can control the direction of the inevitable conversation. Basically, I start with pictures of the hunt, the journey, then show the dead animals, then show a picked clean carcass, meat hanging and finally meals cooked and sausage made. People see hunting to be murdering Cecil the Lion and posing for a trophy pic, then cutting his head off to mount some rich guys rec room.. What they really need to see is Cecil the Lion butchered up and it's meat being enjoyed by hungry locals.
    Interesting last sentence so basically saying hunting is about the meat, were in reality people hunt for various reasons. Then in your avatar picture you show guns and a euro mount and what may be a hide or skin so in a sense trophys, sort of the opposite of what you say to show.

  5. #4
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    We can debate the relevance of the MSM newspapers. I'd lose but, we could debate it. The tactic of getting our point across to the public is the point. We've, (the BCWF) do not attempt to communicate with them directly unless asked via an interview. Perhaps the MSM papers aren't the conduit. I think there's merit in using them with your thoughts noted. I think people are still viewing what they print, if not in paper form, then certainly online. They're not irrelevant in any event. Having said that, and with the idea we go to the people and not the politician, give us an alternative source.
    Last edited by 180grainer; 11-29-2018 at 09:46 PM.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

  6. #5
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by LBM View Post
    Interesting last sentence so basically saying hunting is about the meat, were in reality people hunt for various reasons. Then in your avatar picture you show guns and a euro mount and what may be a hide or skin so in a sense trophys, sort of the opposite of what you say to show.
    Stay on point. How does the BCWF communicate how we feel and what we believe as hunters to the general public. People are going to use analogies, like I did. Don't respond to them. Respond with your opinion as to how do we communicate to the public our position as hunters.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

  7. #6
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    Good thread . . . . hoping it'll stay on track, and we can look at some new ideas.


  8. #7
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    I think you are right on when you say that we need to get the message out to the public as well as the politicians.

    And the message needs to change.

    I think the message of "hunters are conservationist" is worn out. It's a cliche. It needs to be changed and backed up with examples. I attended a major "hunting association event" a couple of years ago and the "hunters are the greatest conservationists" message was constant. But there was no proof, no "Who, When, and How"...the Emperor had no clothes...but everyone in the room believed the message. We need to do much, much better than that!

    Our message must include more than stats and numbers that show the importance of hunting. It must include personally narrated stories from those that hunt (everyone, FN, outfitters, everyone). The stories need to explain how hunting teaches our kids so many things(history, how to be responsible, how to be self reliant, how to problem solve, how to deal with success and how to deal with failure) and the stories need to show how hunting brings families and friends together (who doesn't enjoy a meat cutting party??!). How hunting more than just a living for many outfitters but a way of life that shares the beauty of BC with the world. How knowing what the habitat and fauna was like when our Grandfathers hunted compared to today is important information for habitat management, etc. etc. etc.

    There's just so much to hunting that could be conveyed in our messaging that goes way beyond the "hunters are the original conservationists" but we sure seem to be stuck on that message to the public...for the few occasions where we engage them.

    I sure hope this "Hunter Heritage" program really gets going. We need to hire some good PR people. But first we have to decide what messages we want to sent because the "hunters are conservationists" message isn't getting it done.

  9. #8
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by LBM View Post
    Interesting last sentence so basically saying hunting is about the meat, were in reality people hunt for various reasons. Then in your avatar picture you show guns and a euro mount and what may be a hide or skin so in a sense trophys, sort of the opposite of what you say to show.
    You have an odd thought process.

    If you can't stay on topic, please don't post in this thread. Thanks
    Knowledgeable shooters agree- The 375 Ruger is the NEW KING of all 375 caliber cartridges. ALL HAIL THE NEW KING!

  10. #9
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    Look, this thread was sponsored by Molson's if you get my drift and I need to go to bed. But think about it. The BCWF's tactic has always been to show whatever consternation they could muster about a given griep by writing letters to politicians or by being "granted" or "asked" into interviews. The control of the narrative has always been one-sided. Someone please call me out here......"there has never ever been, in the history of the BCWF, a purposeful policy on addressing those issue important to us all, by going directly to the people province wide and saying "Hey, this is what we think, this is why or where the government is right or wrong". Organizational press releases got us to where we are today. They are not good enough..........they are far from good enough.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Collectivism is Slavery

    Support a Woman's right to arm herself.

    Jan 13th
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9Pm8-tFuU

  11. #10
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    Re: Change in philosophy and a change in tactics

    I had been a member for a long time and a very strong advocate of the BCWF. But, I would say that over the last several years, the BCWF has not aspired to looking out for the resident hunter as well as it could have.
    The problem is the BCWF is a charity and not a lobby organization like the GOABC. GOABC does not render tax receipts for donations gained whereas the BCWF does (dues paid through affiliated club membership and direct member dues excluded). This difference allows the GOABC to lobby for their clients and the Fed can't.
    Long time while back, the Fed used to have a gala event, suit and tie event. A good number of the cast of "Dallas" with Patrick Duffy, Larry Hagman, Steve Kanaly and others would attend. It was always a blockbuster of an event and raised lots of funds for the Fed. Hagman was a great supporter as too was Duffy. Both were avid hunters and this was their contribution to the BCWF.
    This was a time that Fed had great influence without lobbying. The gala was well attended by politicians so even if they were not corralled, the message delivered was subtle and thus the resident hunter prevailed.
    Not sure why the galas were curtailed.
    How to make it work? Perhaps changing it from a charity to a lobby organization would work, who knows?
    ".....It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of a Trudeau government than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their prime minister......​"

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