road deactivations for sensitive habitat

[HarryToolips]

No kidding! Jesus ****!!

haha, Just so you LML guys know, wolves travelled for thousands of years before roads. They use them now, as the path of least resistance, but putting up a sign, or a gate, or a ditch, or digging up the road isn't stopping a wolf from travelling and hunting.

Some/many LML guys either don't know any better, of don't give a **** about local people in the areas that they make their one trip a year.


Look at reg 5, west of the Fraser for example. Lots of bug kill, lots of roads, many dug up at the start. Lots of burn now too.

Moose is already LEH
ATV's are already banned.

If moose numbers are that bad (which they absolutely are), shut down moose hunting in that region until the numbers come back. Simple.

Digging up roads isn't helping the moose, it's doing the opposite. It's making it hard for local guys that don't get the GoldenLEH Ticket and like to hunt, so they predator hunt those areas.

Keep in mind almost all LEH hunters in these areas are from the LML and don't predator hunt there, but expect to get a moose there on their yearly hunting trip with their buddies.

I would think road deactivation in reg 5 would be more advantageous due to impeding the 2 legged preds that can hunt all year - hence the posters everywhere up there saying 'dont shoot the cow moose'

[Dubya]

public access to the back country for those that can't afford or don't have access to a helicopter and not talking about just hunters .....

Do you want them paved as well?? My oath.

Deactivating roads is crucial for wildlife management for obvious reasons. The main logging roads in region 5 definitely get you deep enough into the back country. Deactivating all the sides roads keeps all the lazy hunters (including myself) from getting into every area out there. Sure there is going to be some quaders getting by but there is a lot of truck hunters that won’t. I agree with what some said about logging companies obliterating roads once all work in that area is complete. I’ve only seen it done in one area out towards Nemiah Valley.

[kolofardos]

I for one hate the deactivations because I'm lazy and a bit fat in the ass.

[Dannybuoy]

As is evidenced by myself , a large number of outdoors people and other posters on this thread , it is NOT obvious ....

[walks with deer]

the issue is areas like winter grounds do not need everyone and there dog coming through pressuring the animals..yes i can hike..yes i love a good road hunt...too..
but like the carpenter lake thread when there is quads not just hunters ripping up alpine and winter grass it need to be stopped...
i am not saying rip out every road but key ones is great.

i saw a area of the okanagan that produced a great summer range fore mule deer and held a great pocket of moose have the populations drop as there is no more cover and all the pressure pushes the game into the unlogged ravines...these ravines are full of wolves...pinch point population drop.

[Big Lew]

Unfortunately, there are those, and always will be those, that don't consider environmental sensitivity
when going out and having fun on their atvs etc., nor do they have any qualms about shooting the very
last buck on the mountain. It's all about instant gratification, not about tomorrow. The argument or
justification that 'well, if I didn't shoot it, someone else would have' is wrong, short sighted, and selfish.

[Keta1969]

Increased travelling speeds on linear features and increased net daily movement when wolves use linear features suggests that linear features function to increase the instantaneous search rate. Given that the instantaneous search rate within the disc equation is comprised of distance travelled (Fryxell et al. 2007), a greater distance travelled will result in a higher search rate if the search buffer and attack success remain unchanged. All else being equal, an increase in the instantaneous search rate results in a higher kill rate, and consequently, the predation rate is expected to increase (Messier & Cr^ete 1985).This relationship has been suggested using simulations(McKenzie et al. 2012), and recent work shows wolf kill rates of moose was strongly related to wolf movement rates (Vander Vennen et al. 2016). However, the instantaneous search rate may increase without increasing kill rates if prey saturate the landscape (Holling 1959b)

Not saying deactivation and obliteration will solve the wolf problem but it is a tool that can help. This is from a study out of Alberta. Wolves use the roads just like we do and it increases their efficiency because they cover more ground just like us.

[elknut]

The BCWF has been fighting for more access to the back country for us..I believe in access..Specialized areas can be closed or motor restrictions put on but not total deactivation..There is enough deactivation done naturally by the logging companies ..Pretty soon the rest of BC will be like the friggin Kootenays ...Motor restrictions everywhere..Its ok for 20-40 year olds to pack out there game on their back but when you get older its not a very good alternative..Deactivating roads isn't going to stop wolves ..That's a wives tale..Its the intial logging that opens up the country that brings in the wolves..Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot to impede access as we are loosing lots every day ..Soon with more Indigenious settlements we will really be in trouble ...Just my two bits...Dennis

[Bugle M In]

The BCWF has been fighting for more access to the back country for us..I believe in access..Specialized areas can be closed or motor restrictions put on but not total deactivation..There is enough deactivation done naturally by the logging companies ..Pretty soon the rest of BC will be like the friggin Kootenays ...Motor restrictions everywhere..Its ok for 20-40 year olds to pack out there game on their back but when you get older its not a very good alternative..Deactivating roads isn't going to stop wolves ..That's a wives tale..Its the intial logging that opens up the country that brings in the wolves..Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot to impede access as we are loosing lots every day ..Soon with more Indigenious settlements we will really be in trouble ...Just my two bits...Dennis

Yup, I think some of the reasons we see wolves doing so well and expanding is mostly due to all the logging that has gone on. (much of it due to beating the beetle to the green stuff approach).
We are all seeing wolves expanding territory all over the province and into areas they have never been (that we remember anyways).
Think about this: How many of these areas wolves now are, are due to "high game populations"?
In my opinion, very few, and if anything, most people are complaining all over the province the game#'s are down, and dropping for some years now.
So if that is the case, why did the wolves move in??
That's not how they "naturally expand", they need high #'s to thrive.
What I think has benefitted the wolves, is that so many areas have been "leveled" for miles around, that the wolves have expanded due to "easier hunting" and "success" for themselves ie:more snow drifts due to logging.

I have no other explanation for it, as it pred #'s only go up during high prey #'s, and I don't think anyone can say that is the case.
I think "ease of catching prey" is what has allowed Preds to expand etc.

So, do I think closing off roads will help.
Not when it comes to Preds, not unless we change our logging practices.
Removing spur roads is a good idea for the 2 legged folks.
BUT, hunters like the FN wait til after season is over, and hunt the game when they are down low, so I doubt closing
roads will benefit that dilemma.

And yes, not all of us are 20 anymore, so it will hurt those folks.
The bring problem is, some ORV user have abused the use of their vehicles.
That's where things should have been corrected a long time ago.
And they still get around deactivated areas.
Strict ORV guidelines would be of bigger benefit, imo.

I think we hold too much water with "road closures"
IF IT had worked, areas like the EK would be "pact with elk"!
40 + years of road closures up there, and 0 positive to show for it.
Road closures alone, "will not make a difference"!!!!

Some are continuously looking for the "magic pill", the "1 Fix", to remedy the entire problems we see in the province.
For those of you that think that, you will be "disappointed" big time down the road.

[Dannybuoy]

The BCWF has been fighting for more access to the back country for us..I believe in access..Specialized areas can be closed or motor restrictions put on but not total deactivation..There is enough deactivation done naturally by the logging companies ..Pretty soon the rest of BC will be like the friggin Kootenays ...Motor restrictions everywhere..Its ok for 20-40 year olds to pack out there game on their back but when you get older its not a very good alternative..Deactivating roads isn't going to stop wolves ..That's a wives tale..Its the intial logging that opens up the country that brings in the wolves..Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot to impede access as we are loosing lots every day ..Soon with more Indigenious settlements we will really be in trouble ...Just my two bits...Dennis

Couldn't agree more .