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Thread: Blacktail rut is finally on...

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    B.C.
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    1,748

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    My pro hunter is set up with a stainless fluted 50cal muzzleloader barrel. I actually bought it because as a 50cal they are really accurate and well reviewed

    I have heard the TC rifle barrels can have issues and is one reason I have held back on a rifle barrel. I have owned my pro hunter for 2years and love the fit but want to make sure a rifle barrel is worth while

    Are you say cutting back the TC barrels fixed the issues with them?

    Been told some of the after market barrels are good but have not found any available in Canada
    This following test was done by David White

    T/C Pro Hunter test:

    A couple weeks ago, I performed a single test on 5 different T/C Pro Hunter rifles that literally cut their group size in half. Before I tell you what I did though, here is a list of the guns/calibers/loads used in this seemingly simple test...

    All guns had the 28" fluted T/C Pro Hunter barrel...

    All guns had Mike Bellms oversize hinge pin, heavy duty locking bolt spring and 51 lb. hammer spring...

    All guns had trigger jobs with the triggers being set from 2 1/2 to 3 lbs...

    All guns were shooting factory ammo...

    All guns were checked before testing to make sure the mounts were tight...

    Here is a list of each caliber used in the test, along with the ammo and group size before/after. I will also point out that there were 2 3-shot groups fired from the bench at 100 yards before the test and 2 3-shot groups fired after the test with the average group size listed for a ruler reading of group size measured center to center...

    1) 22-250 / 55 gr. Federal Premium / before - 1 3/4" / after - 3/4"...

    2) 25/06 / 117 gr. Hornady Spire Point / before - 2" / after - 1"...

    3) 7mm Rem. Mag. / 140 gr. Nosler Partition / before - 2 1/2" / after - 7/8"...

    4) 308 / 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt / before - 1 1/2" / after - 3/4"...

    5) 300 Win. Mag. / 180 gr. Ballistic Silver Tip / before - 2" / after - 1"...

    Okay, what was the ONLY thing done to these guns to cut their group size in half? I cut 5" off the barrel and recrowned the muzzle! Well, that may actually be two things but, it stands to reason that if you cut a barrel back, it automatically gets recrowned...

    So why did these guns start shooting more like what they were suppose to with a 23" barrel instead of a 28" barrel? Excessive "whip" and "vibration" as well as a total change in "harmonics"...

    Here is a simple test that you can do and one that I have shown many customers. Remove your barrel from the frame and put the barrel lug in a vice and lock it down good and tight. Put a lead pencil in the muzzle end of the barrel. The wood is soft and will NOT damage the rifling or crown. Make sure the fit is good and tight. Now take a piece of paper and anchor it in front of the barrel and to where it comes in contact with the pencil. Now, with just your thumb and index finger, see just how much you can "flex" the barrel. You can very easily move the barrel 1/2" in all directions and depending on the pressure applied, it is easy to make a circle over 1" in diameter just from the barrel having so much give to it...

    I have put these barrels in a lathe and run the lathe at 1,000 rpm and have shown customers how easy these barrels flex or bend with just finger tip pressure. What do you think these same overly long barrels do when a round is fired down the bore? They flex pretty much the same way but, too fast for the eye to see it. A shorter barrel though, will still flex but, to a lesser degree...

    These Encore barrels also have what is referred to as a "step taper" and this too is a big cause of barrel flex. This is why that, when I build a barrel by barrel stubbing, I only use barrels that have a "straight taper" as this is what can be referred to as a self supporting structure. It does NOT whip around or flex like what the step tapered barrels do and with the vibrations lessened and harmonics dampened, accuracy potential of the barrel goes way up...

    Will cutting 5" off of every barrel automatically make your barrel a better shooter? I cannot say 100% that it will but, I have yet to see one that it did not help at least to a certain degree and some more than others...

    Let me also point out that something else that was noticed was "loose" spots in the bore. With all 5 of the rifles tested, when running a jag with a tight fitting patch down the bore, there was at least one if not two loose spots in the bore, with the first one usually at the 23 to 24" mark and then the second one at around 27". I cannot say for sure but, I believe this is why these barrels shot much better because of the elimination of these loose spots. This is something that you cannot "fix" in these long barrels and the only way to deal with it is to live with it being like it is or cut it off, recrown and go from there...

    Velocity loss when going from a 28" barrel down to 23"? I only had time to shoot the 25-06 and 308 over the chronograph and total velocity loss for both was less than 60 fps.. I was expecting more but, and this is only my opinion, I feel the oversize bore closer to the muzzle end of the barrel was the culprit. If the bore was uniform from end to end or the muzzle end of the bore had a slight constriction to it, I would have expected a greater velocity loss. The 25-06 really surprised me as this cartridge performs admirably in a long barrel and shows it's true velocity potential. Not so in the last couple of Encore barrels I tested...

    It's things like this that show the p-poor quality and design standards of T/C. It's no wonder Mike Bellm and I have so much gray hair....

    DAVID WHITE
    Funniest post I have ever read...

    Originally Posted by troutseeker
    I rotate 1/2 tp 5/8 of a turn, and I do so in both directions. that is due to my press being mounted in th middle of my bench nad my beer being on hte right side nad my cigar being on hte left side. Thus I rotate each way ot take a sip or a puff.

    I have not noticed significant runout, mind you,after a few brews I lose interest in measuring...

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    468

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Had a close encounter this morning but it took off as I tried to put my coffee cup down.... lol, it was only 40 yards away but it was too foggy to sex in the moment. Pretty sure it was sporting head gear though.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    In the bush near a lake
    Posts
    5,143

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Thanks for the education I appreciate the wisdom as this kinda of stuff is beyond my knowledge

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    62

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    awesome buck, awesome gun. Congrats!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    424

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Camp Cook View Post
    My rifle is a single shot 14" barreled T/C G2 Contender carbine....
    Is your 14" barrelled gun a restricted weapon? (Restricted weapons include firearms with barrels shorter than 470mm (18.5").) Is it legal to hunt with a restricted weapon?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    In the Very DARK Thick BUSH where Grizzly Bears Live ! and Now in Kammy
    Posts
    8,702

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Quote Originally Posted by RBH View Post
    Is your 14" barrelled gun a restricted weapon? (Restricted weapons include firearms with barrels shorter than 470mm (18.5").) Is it legal to hunt with a restricted weapon?
    No its NOT restricted ! Factory barrel and overall lenght is Correct ! RJ

    https://nfa.ca/2005/02/25/barrel-and-firearms-lengths/
    The King of 300 Mags is the 300 Weatherby

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Nanaimo B.C.
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    404

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Quote Originally Posted by REMINGTON JIM View Post
    No its NOT restricted ! Factory barrel and overall lenght is Correct ! RJ

    https://nfa.ca/2005/02/25/barrel-and-firearms-lengths/
    Ya the restricted classification determined by barrel length only applies if it's semi-auto right ?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    424

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Quote Originally Posted by REMINGTON JIM View Post
    No its NOT restricted ! Factory barrel and overall lenght is Correct ! RJ

    https://nfa.ca/2005/02/25/barrel-and-firearms-lengths/
    I think you are correct. I mis-read the RCMP information Q&A blurb, which could do with a clearer description of what is / is not restricted. Thanks.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    41

    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    Nice buck!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    B.C.
    Posts
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    Re: Blacktail rut is finally on...

    I'll try to explain the Canadian legalities of rifles/long guns.

    1) a barrel longer than 18" cannot be shortened shorter than 18"

    2) minimum overall length of a non-restricted firearm in Canada is just slightly over 26"

    3) a barrel shorter than 18" is classed as restricted and can be shortened shorter as long it it isn't cut shorter than just over 4" that turns it into a prohibited barrel length

    4) a barrel manufactured shorter than 18" can be installed on a non-restricted long gun as long as the overall length is over 26"

    The overall length of my T/C Contender carbines is minimum 27.5" - 28.5" the one in the picture is 28.5" that means that this combination is classed as non-restricted making it perfectly legal.

    Important you have to use a non-restricted Contender frame do not use a restricted frame even though the only difference between restricted and a non-restricted frames is paper work meaning it was imported as a handgun or a carbine.

    Using a restricted frame does not change its classification it is still restricted and you will be charge as if you are carrying a handgun.

    This morning I carried my non-restricted 14" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 375JDJ loaded with 220gr bullets @ 2200fps this combo give almost exactly the same performance as a 21" barreled 375 Win.
    Last edited by Camp Cook; Today at 05:46 PM.
    Funniest post I have ever read...

    Originally Posted by troutseeker
    I rotate 1/2 tp 5/8 of a turn, and I do so in both directions. that is due to my press being mounted in th middle of my bench nad my beer being on hte right side nad my cigar being on hte left side. Thus I rotate each way ot take a sip or a puff.

    I have not noticed significant runout, mind you,after a few brews I lose interest in measuring...

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