My 2 cents on the Junior Hunt.....

[Wild one]

All this talk about abuse by Dads shooting the deer...

How many tickets have been issued? How many convictions? How many complaints made to COs?

If the abuse is as widespread as many on here are claiming, then there surely is done documentation, right?

I forgot this response? Everyone’s integrity and assume it’s all false lol. Not a direct shot at you but you are throwing out a common rebuttal for the forum

Have not hunted during this season in a number of years but yes witnessed examples of abuse on a 3 occasion’s. I did not officially report it but did discuss it with a CO who I know well. The response that I was given was “unfortunately it is an extremely difficult one for a CO to pursue with out pics, video or CO directly witnessing it”

it falls under the same category of those who shoot off a friend or family members tag. The animal was taken during an open season and tagged is the only thing a CO can prove without a confession or video

[Wild one]

considering i hunt on average 50+ days per fall for the last 10 years of my life and have been stopped a total of 3 times by a co might be a reason there hasn't been many convictions. i really like seeing conservation officers in the bush and always have good chats when i do see them, but it just doesnt happen enough. what the conviction number is is fairly irrelevant if people are doing it and getting away with it. honestly maybe the number of people cheating the system is so minimal it has no effect {this is what i believe}. But i have no proof of these things happening. maybe its jealous hunters like the OP making up stories to try and socially manage our hunting seasons, probably the case!

How many people have you heard of being charged using the “FN tag” bit ?

This is an extremely common one in the area I live in CO’s won’t touch it because they can’t prove the non FN guy is the shooter

[blackford]

honestly maybe the number of people cheating the system is so minimal it has no effect {this is what i believe}. But i have no proof of these things happening. maybe its jealous hunters like the OP making up stories to try and socially manage our hunting seasons, probably the case!

Again... I am not jealous. I have more than adequate wild game every year...I have always managed to bring meat to the table. Its not jealousy.. It simply making provisions for a sustainable resource.

I can't stress this enough. Please don't be defensive. This post was brought up to discuss the issues.

how do you believe that its minimal numbers that cheat the system... If you are getting stopped .6% of the days you hunted in the last 10 years... cmon brother...

[Brez]

Again, Blackford, I thank you for bringing up a controversial topic. There is no need to get emotional or defensive or confrontational here. This is a hunting discussion forum and a very valid topic was put presented. We are all entitled to our opinions. They are based on our experiences and because someone else has had different experiences, hence different opinions, they are not diminished.

[Bugle M In]

There's been a few times in the past few years, going to the local Gun Shop.
During those times, there has been talk going on about juniors/seniors having these permits etc, and the dad being the one doing the hunting and shooting.
From what I recall, it was mainly in regards to some of that zonex hunts, and believe it or not, I just listened, and didn't say anything, and this I recall was a topic of discussion several times while there.
So, what I am saying, as some have said here, it is talked about!, and why the OP is getting kind of hammered over bringing this up, is beyond me, and probably why membership on this site is declining, and why many say they rarely come here anymore!
So, are those people wrong, or just don't have tough enough skin!??

Also, (I think I have said this), but my best friend sons had the LEH for elk in the Pitt last season.
There are 3 non fn permits.
There was also another father/son team in there at the same time.
All my buddy said was, there were days where they only saw that father out and about, while son stayed at the cabin etc.!
So okay, dad could have been just trying to "locate elk"!
But, it does show that some kids really don't care if they hunt or not!

The big difference with that scenario, that I think most of us "cant relate with"!, is the fact that when we were young, there was no F'n chance we were going to sit in the cabin!
We were probably telling dad to "move his ass" , "come on, lets go, I'm ready"!
(that is probably what most of us on this site were like)
But this kid wasn't, and this type of scenario sure leads to some "legitimate speculation" you could say.

Last thing, and I think this hasn't been brought up.
The OP brought up this whole thread based on MD.
Now, I do have doubts that the youth MD hunt enacts a lot of dads to use this loophole to get a deer!
When it comes to deer, MD or WT, I think the majority of the take is done by the youths.
So, I think the OP need not concern himself that it is the youth hunt that is making the MD disappear in his eyes.
(It's no different then when Bow opens first a week before, and then I go out, the game already knows it GOS)

But, when it comes to game like ELK, I think there might be some room for discussion (fair discussion) that some middle aged folks are using that for their advantage, by having a youth/senior in the family with a tag.
Reason being, elk and moose are more of the "prize harvest" then a deer, imo.

And now you take a coveted, once in a lifetime, Rosie Draw, and I think you have a real recipe for Dads using their kids.
Now that dad has a 2nd draw for the same area, under the disguise of using his child as an entry tag.
I think those type of things "do happen"!
And those type of special leh tags, are not always "what the kid wanted to do in the 1st place"!
But, what do you know, dad didn't win, but the kid did!
So, now I go back to the scenario in the Pitt last season.

So what was the outcome?
Well, my buddies son, who was 20, did get his bull, and did "do the hunting" while dad drove and help spot.
At that time, the other father/son had not taken a bull.
But, my understanding was, at a later date, the kid did "tag out".
Who the F knows who got it?
Maybe the kid did?

So, youth season and MD, I doubt there is much concern to be had, and it sure as hell wouldn't cause a "decline in population".
Coveted tags, there is a good possibility that others are doing the shooting at times.
But, isn't thee type of LEH designed that even if every permit holder is successful, that it will still have no effect on causing population decline?, I think that is what it is designed to do.

So really, this ends up being an "Ethics" issue.
And I think Ethics good for the most part in the province, but as the "rarity" of the tag gets, so does the ethics decline to some degree.
I think that is a fair statement.
I think it was a fair thread to be posted.
What I didn't think was right, was to make it "open season" on the OP.
And yes, if people see this type of thing going on, report it.
That stops a lot of "speculation" going on in the 1st place.
I'm out!

[horshur]

Show the stats for roadkill..compare them to even exaggerated claims of harvest during youth hunt...If you all want to virtue signal..go find the raincoast page...

[Bugle M In]

Show the stats for roadkill..compare them to even exaggerated claims of harvest during youth hunt...If you all want to virtue signal..go find the raincoast page...

I agree with that.
I see that the Road kill Stats where I go in the EK for elk, and probably outnumbers all the kills, for any species, by hunters,
3X over!!!
Bang on there my friend!

[HighCountryBC]

Again... I am not jealous. I have more than adequate wild game every year...I have always managed to bring meat to the table. Its not jealousy.. It simply making provisions for a sustainable resource.

I can't stress this enough. Please don't be defensive. This post was brought up to discuss the issues.

how do you believe that its minimal numbers that cheat the system... If you are getting stopped .6% of the days you hunted in the last 10 years... cmon brother...

If you're worried about a sustainable resource, focus your efforts on areas and objectives that will make more deer. Kids shooting a handful of surplus bucks before school starts isn't something that needs to be addressed.

If people spent HALF - that's right, HALF as much time getting on their elected officials about habitat, predators etc. as they did logging in to things like Facebook and HBC complaining about meaningless points like 4 point and youth seasons, we would be so much further ahead than we are now.

People want to know why the USA has such game rich areas? It is really simple. They fund wildlife management, they burn the heck out the country, they protect winter range (full closures, shed hunt closures etc.), and they kill predators. They harvest across all age classes and both sexes without silly antler point restrictions. Hunters don't waste their time complaining about stupid, meaningless points like folks up here love to do. We keep restricting seasons and game numbers keep getting worse.

[Ourea]

Gotta invest in youth, they are the future that will perpetuate our sport.
Simple as that.

[silvertipp]

To suggest the youth season has anything to do with the decline in deer population is ridiculous
the op be also suggest a youth is in able of making a quick shot at an animal also ridiculous
I have taken many youth hunters and fathers out hunting never had a problem with the kids getting off clean shots and kills
to suggest kids are playing Vidio games while dad is out hunting come on
a hole bunch of hear say going on without any evidence
the kids I hunted with were always the first one up and there was no way they would have let anyone shoot there deer
To use fishing in a closed season as a reference to kids hunting in a youth season only
suggests where you are coming from
quit whining about children learning and having an advantage over you and get out there and find a deer
if your that hard up give me a call and I will get my kid to take you out