Another EK Elk Hunt Down the Tubes

[.264winmag]

Beauty country, sad to hear that the game #ers are down. WT definitely are an adaptable species but imo not likely much of a factor. I see them mingling with mulies often, mulies doing fine in these spots. Seen them bedded beside elk where elk #'s seem to be the same. Seen them in spitting distance of moose and the moose are still there. You get my picture, that and wt are my favourite rat dog deer to hunt and eat

FN is an issue anywhere there's easy winter pickin...

Logging, can do wonders to help game pops food sources. Issues can arise by taking wintering grounds away obviously. But there again that's how I make my livin so I am fairly prejudice there HA.

Not the only spot I've visited that looked as prime for elk/mulie habitat and not seen a hair. Flathead has areas just like it, old sign but nothin new. Bunch of other region 4 spots also, but these were never know for high elk pops ever and the reasoning was too heavy of snow fall in winter. Most beautiful slide chutes you could find for elk/mulie habitat though?

[Bugle M In]

Beauty country, sad to hear that the game #ers are down. WT definitely are an adaptable species but imo not likely much of a factor. I see them mingling with mulies often, mulies doing fine in these spots. Seen them bedded beside elk where elk #'s seem to be the same. Seen them in spitting distance of moose and the moose are still there. You get my picture, that and wt are my favourite rat dog deer to hunt and eat

FN is an issue anywhere there's easy winter pickin...

Logging, can do wonders to help game pops food sources. Issues can arise by taking wintering grounds away obviously. But there again that's how I make my livin so I am fairly prejudice there HA.

Not the only spot I've visited that looked as prime for elk/mulie habitat and not seen a hair. Flathead has areas just like it, old sign but nothin new. Bunch of other region 4 spots also, but these were never know for high elk pops ever and the reasoning was too heavy of snow fall in winter. Most beautiful slide chutes you could find for elk/mulie habitat though?

As far as WT causing elk issues, that was not my thought at all.
I brought it up for those who are concerned about MD #'s in the EK, as it has been pointed out WT's will/could potentially
push out the MD.
I bring it up into this thread, as I have seen some odd and somewhat stupid reason for "more restrictions" to "prop up" the MD
#'s.
I am just saying that there are some things I see now that was rare years ago.
I understand your living is logging, and I am not saying that logging is the issue either for decrease elk #'s either.
In one way, due to the lack of snow, thus slides, cut blocks should have acted as the "next best thing".
But, there were more elk years ago, without the logging, and I do believe one thing for sure, if that logging wasn't there, I doubt that WT would have been.
As for the Scree Slopes, no, these aren't the best photos I have (I will get there, but remember, I was trying to hunt).
Elk did exist in decent #'s here, it may not have been like some areas like Cranbrook etc, but this area did hold decent enough elk, and some Crankers.
Like I said, I will add stories of hunts as well, and what has worked.
In the end, this isn't just a thread on "WHERE ARE THE ELK".
But, I will ask all of you to decide if it is a Pred issue, that so many of us jump on these days.
Or is it a Habitat issue??? (even with all the logging!), or is it just not the "right kind of habitat, or, happening in the wrong areas, meaning bedding areas rather then feeding areas???
Also, these areas so far are most definitely summer and early fall range.
Where I hunt is mainly the "transition zone" between summer and winter range, which was generally smack dab in the middle
of the Rutting Time and Migration.
Like I said, I am not talking about hunting an area that never had elk, and I am just wasting my time, it did have elk, and should have elk, but it doesn't, or very few now.
The cutblocks, the feed, and this is just one small area, this goes for miles like this.

[rocksteady]

A huge part of the lack of game has been mismanagement.

3 years of a 10 day antlerless elk season plus 5 years of a 21 day season with a limit of 2 antlerless wt HAS impacted the populations..

[Bugle M In]

This photo is the best I can do for scree slopes in their somewhat natural condition, but with a few cutblocks for good measure.
Should be decent feed, no matter what your choice.
Oh, and yeas, there was a fire some time back , plus a new one, but I aint holding my breath.
Mostly because the old one didn't make a difference, and the new one is just not a mountain the game really liked to call home anyways.
Had it burnt directly across from it on the other side of the river, well then, maybe something to stay hopeful for, but then again, there's always next summer for a chance of fires!

[rocksteady]

With the elk...

10 day antlerless..

The big grey cow runs the herd (not the bull like so many state)..
She gets smoked.. rest of the herd does not know they are supposed to migrate uphill in the spring.. so they hang low and cause issues..

[rocksteady]

If they hang low there are less elk up high (like the past 3 seasons)...

[Liveforthehunt]

It is a damn mystery and very interesting read thank you for sharing ... in saying that I found alot of spots low and high where I was hunting with a pretty healthy population of elk . Far too many friends and family killed 6 points or larger this year 8 now just close friends and saw many more walk . Yes vegetation changes and things start to grow up I think the animals do adapt a little and move around. I found spots this year that had very little elk sign to nothing. And went one mountain range over to find alot more game that usually had very little In the past 20 years. With your whitetail comment your definitely onto something. My father and I were way up the mountain last year in the same area and ended up taking a whitey buck I'm a very odd mountain range. I am not overly concerned from the elk this year sightings and sign in alot of areas trampled where not another human had been the whole time we were there. But animals closer to home where I love I am seeing a pop decline for sure moose deer etc. Even less wolf sign . When you find out the core problem or if it Is all of the above I would like to know and do my best to help the situation of bringing things back with hopefully alot of fellow hbcers doing the same

[.264winmag]

With the elk...

10 day antlerless..

The big grey cow runs the herd (not the bull like so many state)..
She gets smoked.. rest of the herd does not know they are supposed to migrate uphill in the spring.. so they hang low and cause issues..

Not the first time I've heard this about other areas, makes perfect sense...

[Rattler]

Is it possible the wolves have pushed the elk out of this valley? Are neighboring valleys experiencing the same lack of elk? I agree there are numerous issues causing the decline, but here in the WK IMO the wolves are the number one reason for reduced ungulates.

[j270wsm]

We've seen very similar issues in the elk valley. Areas that are road closures from sept 1 - June 16 but don't hold elk, Valleys that have zero vehicle acces that don't hold elk. Friends spending countless days/kilometres hiking or riding horses and not seeing elk.

Cant remember exactly what yr the 6pt restriction came into effect but a few yrs after we started seeing more and more elk. Keep in mind that we didn't have any cow/calf elk draws. 2001-2010 was the overall elk highest numbers that I can remember. 2011-2014 I started noticing less elk in slides that they always are in. 2014-present, less and less elk to the point that I didn't buy a tag this yr which ends my 10+ yr streak of filling my elk tag.

Contributing factors that I've seen.

high grizzly numbers

2000 or 2001? Ndp put the bear moratorium in place for 4yrs ( idiots ). Low number of griz tags available, seasons being canceled due to high incidental kills( self defence, vehicles ) and hunters filling all the tags allowed a few yrs in a row.

High wolf numbers......common sense here......lots or prey means lots of wolves and People not wanting to admit the population was going up.

High cow/ calf tags. When the moe started giving out tags for the east kootenays, 4-23 in specific, it was around 50 tags and a few yrs later it jumped to 300 tags split between 2 short season and this is where it stayed until 2yrs ago when it was cut back to 30tags.

how many elk can be removed from a herd every yr before they can't sustain their numbers??

My opinion....due to high predator numbers and high cow/calf harvest the population has come down to the point the elk dont need to go into the back country to find food.