First Nation Issues

[Mosin]

Indians work for Highways and the BC and Federal gov'ts. like all udderz.
Built those highways too not just you Mosin Hahahahaha
Indians are Canadian Army Vets also
---Indians are now computer brains with cell phones and can cut, paste and not waste whoa!

Jel -- Indians have worked with others for hundreds of years building the infrastructure and the Fraser Canyon routes, and the Coke also - on and on

So why not just live and contribute like the rest of us? It's actually a pretty fair system, has its problems but when you look at how crummy other countries run themselves it's very evident ours will the closet thing to fair. No one should have special privileges.

[Pemby_mess]

Ok, fine they have their own rights cool...can they please exercise these rights without using the infrastructure built by "Canadian public", they wanna be seperate and yet use our roads, power, hospitals? Shouldn't be cherry picking what rules you wanna follow that benefit you and then claim to seperate when it benefits you. Exercise your right on your reserves than.

the reserve system never conformed to Canadian Law - that's one problem, and so, more and more, the land claims look to be a successful endeavour for them. The individual rights described in the indian act don't come come without concessions and are accordingly controversial.

I don't think any FN is advocating for complete separation. The right to self-determination is something that is talked a lot about, and is of course also controversial. You imply the the FN haven't also had a part in building the infrastructure you mention. Why should they give up access to the stuff they've helped build for the common Canadian identity?

[Jimbob]

Ok, fine they have their own rights cool...can they please exercise these rights without using the infrastructure built by "Canadian public", they wanna be seperate and yet use our roads, power, hospitals? Shouldn't be cherry picking what rules you wanna follow that benefit you and then claim to seperate when it benefits you. Exercise your right on your reserves than.

Their rights extend to their territory no just their reserve. Also many of the treaties said health care education etc would be provided. Much of the agreement was "If we can use your land you can use our stuff" Now this is very general overview of course.

[Pemby_mess]

Yep, I agree, but who give them the right to use our technology?

"our" technology? Lol

[Mosin]

No reason this can be discussed without getting locked and it turn into name calling and such.

My post is generalizing I know but I stand by it, semantics aside. I tried to put it in plain terms. It is extremely convoluted and complex. Treaties in some areas none in others but still rights. This can go down numerous rabbit holes but I think understanding the big picture is important.

So lets discuss this topic:

Can this change?

My opinion is no. If new PM comes in and says "NO MORE WE ARE ONE COUNTRY" and everything passes and new law is in place. I think FN's will just fight it in court and they will win. I think they will win because of how the country was settled.

England did not come over here and conquer the Indians. We are not where we are because we feel bad about what we did. Agreements were made nation to nation (treaties) and proclamations were made that said we would not steal FN land. When the courts make decision they go back to this stuff. You do not have to have be part of a treaty to have rights.

You guys are only getting what you want now because your dealing mostly with white politicians. In the coming generations more "children of immigrants" will hold political office, I don't think they will be as easily guilted. They will simply say "hey we never even did anything to you guys, my grandfather came here on a boat and worked in a sawmill and bought a house, you are expected to do the same and adhere to the same laws" ....this is just my opinion

[Pemby_mess]

You guys are only getting what you want now because your dealing mostly with white politicians. In the coming generations more "children of immigrants" will hold political office, I don't think they will be as easily guilted. They will simply say "hey we never even did anything to you guys, my grandfather came here on a boat and worked in a sawmill and bought a house, you are expected to do the same and adhere to the same laws" ....this is just my opinion

I think the more first generation Canadians read and learn about the law, the more they will come to respect it and choose to act with it as a guide for building the future societies they want to see. I always have had the utmost respect for children of immigrants. However, when they see where they come from, understand what makes Canada different, and why their parents chose to come here, they often have an about face in attitude.

Understanding the law, and how it applies to any given situation isn't about guilt. Did Europeans make the initial treaty agreements based on guilt?

[Jimbob]

You guys are only getting what you want now because your dealing mostly with white politicians. In the coming generations more "children of immigrants" will hold political office, I don't think they will be as easily guilted. They will simply say "hey we never even did anything to you guys, my grandfather came here on a boat and worked in a sawmill and bought a house, you are expected to do the same and adhere to the same laws" ....this is just my opinion

um?? I'm not First Nation if that is what you mean by "You guys..".

So you think politicians will just say "enough"? BUT as soon as politicians try to change everything it will just end up in court.

I am more of a realist and not a dreamer. I would rather accurately view the situation and make the best of the possibilities instead of wishing for something that will never happen. I can be wrong about what's possible though.

[Pemby_mess]

You guys are only getting what you want now because your dealing mostly with white politicians. In the coming generations more "children of immigrants" will hold political office, I don't think they will be as easily guilted. They will simply say "hey we never even did anything to you guys, my grandfather came here on a boat and worked in a sawmill and bought a house, you are expected to do the same and adhere to the same laws" ....this is just my opinion

The law in terms of land title and the right to hunt and fish, have absolutely zero to with anything we "did to them". Those formerly mentioned aspects of the relationship by far predate any type of institutional racism inside of the confederacy; and certainly predate any notions of white guilt associated with the past.

[Mulehahn]

My apologies, I quoted the wrong person in the first version of this post

But that is assuming that it is the children of immigrants who will be the ones evoking change. I don't see it that way. I read a study that in about 10 years whites will be the minority in North America. Now, I think that is too short but not far off. Many immigrants come to Canada from places where the persecution they faced make a residential school look like a stint in juvie; no doubt they were bad but nothing compared to the death camps in Burma. When they see the dreams that brought them to Canada being destroyed or healed ransom by 3% of the population in reconciliation for wrongs committed that they were in no way a part of they will certainly question it and do much more. It will not be in generations down the road, but by the ones coming here today who will in office 10 years from now.

[Danny_29]

Not even one mention of civil war? I'm impressed haha