First Nation Issues

[Jelvis]

Grumpa you must of studied this political correctness? To a T.
-- R U a retired ah debater?
Jello -- Joe - Grumpy --

[Jagermeister]

Yep. Pretty much a Guarantee on this one alright!

Cheers,
Nog

i figure that the two of you are young enough to witness a civil war.

[mike_b]

This is an issue all over Canada and the amount of misinformation is crazy. Yelling screaming and whining about it will not help nor will it change the LAWS. Here are a few points/facts that we need to understand.

1. First Nations are a Nation. That means they are not the same as the Canadian public. Canada is a nation and First Nation is a nation. They will always have different rules. Just like USA has different rules then us. This will always be TRUE. This will never change. We will never be one nation with all the same rules. Yelling that it is not fair will not change this. This means different laws and different rights for each group.

2. First Nations have the right to hunt/fish/use resources. Canadians do not have this right. It is not my right to use the resources. No court will uphold my right to hunt/fish because I don't have one. That means the government can change the law and thus change my privilege to hunt/fish. The government CANNOT take away the First Nation's right to hunt/fish/etc. (There is only one way they can, I'll explain later)

3. First Nations have first right to resources. If a resource is dwindling then Canadian privileges are first taken away before First Nation's are effected. This is law. The only way to take away the rights of the First Nation is if the species is at such a risk that there is no way to support any kind of harvest.

These things will not change. Government cannot change them. The courts will always hold up the rights that the First Nations have. Therefore the government will not waste there time creating laws that will just get thrown out in court.

It is within this framework that we must work. The above things will not change. So how do we move forward? What is the best approach for the wildlife? I think understanding the difficult (but real) situation we have here is important. Not everyone has the same rights. It is a reality that a different set of laws will apply to each group. First Nations will always have better access to hunting and fishing. We will lose opportunities and they will not. I hate that there is two groups but it is the reality of how this country was formed.

I actually felt brain cells die while reading this crap.....

[Jagermeister]

If you just examine a few of the major news stories and the trends in education it is easy to see why people are getting resentful

-The removal of J.A. MacDonald's statue in Victoria.
-as soon as there is any issue involving "caucasians" and First Nations the race card is played against the "caucasians".
-The elimination of the Grizzly hunt.
-Yesterday's suspension of LEH and moose hunting in the Chilcotin for any but First Nations.
-The ongoing, perceived or real, salmon fishing disputes.
-The ruling against the Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion.
-Implementation of First Nations English 12 and Socials 12 classes and the need to include a large percentage of First Nations books in general English classes.
-Naming all new schools using First Nations names. Ironic because this horrible education system is always blamed for the failure of First Nations youth.
-The forced implementation of First Nations cultural ceremonies and constant reminder of the "unceded" land that everything is built on. This smudging is supposed to be strictly voluntary (straight from the lips of a First Nations individual) yet at every municipal or provincial gathering the standard speech is given without offering to excuse those that do not wish to be present. I am forced to go through it every time there is a gathering in the school district, many insisting on holding hands, not going to do it. If I were to walk out I can only imagine the repercussions.

It may sound like I am a grumpy old man but it (grumpy) is far from the truth. I have historically been extremely tolerant and sympathetic but I am becoming extremely tired of being made to feel shame about what happened centuries ago. Who is advocating and crying for the Celts, Druids, Gauls, Hittites, Philistines, Carthaginians and any other ethnic group that have been assimilated or "cleansed" over the course of history? Activists are only too happy to say to give everything back to the First Nations but when queried if they own property why they don't sign the deed back over to the local band, they stammer that that won't happen. Let's see how the overwhelming majority would feel if the government mandated all property be transferred to FNs.

Just my take on where this politically correct path is taking people.

I’m on your page Grump Joe.
I mentioned civil war.
Consider how circumstances have rapidly emerged and how the push to expedite more and more powers over the general public has escalated. It’s like that runaway train that crashed into Lac Magentic and the way events are quickly developing there is bound to be a “firery crash”.

[Grumpa Joe]

Grumpa you must of studied this political correctness? To a T.
-- R U a retired ah debater?
Jello -- Joe - Grumpy --

Not looking to debate you Jelly. You said I was wrong blaming Provincial and Federal governments over the resentment that people are feeling and I was just pointing out issues (okay the JA Mac thing was Victoria's major but expressing the sentiment trickling down from higher levels of government), both current and long-standing, that those governments have control over.

No, PC is not a favorite subject area of mine to learn or to teach.

God willing, oh my gosh, I invoked a religious belief, I have got less than 4 years left before retirement, God give me strength. Oh $hit! I did it again.

Always look on the bright side of life....

[silvertipp]

FN obviously have both FN commercial catch quotas, and standard commercial catch quotas. Therefore allowed to sell salmon by right. What, you think every Indian looking person selling fish, is doing so illegally?

You're ok with non- indigenous selling fish, but not FN doing the exact.same.thing? Why is that?

I figured that would be your angle funny thing is there are many years there is no commercial openings
and there is still plenty of fish forsale by First Nations this would make it illegal and an abuse of the system
the reason they do do is simple
nothing happens to them by our courts or there's

[northof49]

You're optimistic my friend, I don't think my grandchildren will see it. First things need to go to shits, before the common sense prevails and things get ironed out back to "proper".

No worries China will straighten it out soon enuf once they finish acquiring Canada.

[Jack Russell]

The People and Governments change "Rights" all the time.

Even those that were written in Stone.

Precisely!

[Jack Russell]

You're going to have a very different perspective on the UN if we end up on the planetary dark side of an authoritarian US, and China looking for new expansion opportunities.

Fearmongering again. Red herring.

[338win mag]

Fearmongering again. Red herring.

Theres probably some truth there jack, I understand security, I dont understand meddling with internal affairs of its member nations.