NStQ First Nations, B.C., Canada advance to final treaty negotiations

[Pemby_mess]

Private property is private property. You can't make a settlement that gives FNS title to land and then say that they don't have the actual rights to that land that other private property holders have. .

Really? I get a bit frustrated with this "private is private" mindset. There are all sorts of rights that don't go a long with simple property ownership. Fish and wildlife is one that I can think of. As a land owner, I don't have any rights to the fish and game on my parcel without explicit permission. That aspect is regulated by the provincial crown. Technically, I can't build anything without a permit, use any water that lies on it's surface, extract minerals from it. Traditional property ownership excludes all kinds of specified uses, subject to zoning too.

I think there are creative options in a large settlement. I'm no lawyer, but what about a management trust with the Crown as trustee; FN as beneficiary? Or a third party as trustee and the crown/FN as 50/50 beneficiaries?

Or something similar......

[Goose]

Can we not just all "identify" as FN now.....everything seems so fluid and accepted these days. Then we're back to hunting and fishing as we should be.

[Ourea]

PIB alleges fraud, dishonesty

Colin Dacre - Jul 27, 2018 / 5:22 pm | Story: 232537
Photo: Colin Dacre
PIB Chief Chad Eneas


The Penticton Indian Band has fired back against its former chief administrative officer with a countersuit in response to a wrongful dismissal lawsuit filed against it last month.Brent Ryan-Lewis filed a breach of contract claim on June 21, alleging the PIB dismissed him unjustly after he raised concerns about Chief and Council’s financial management of the First Nation. He claimed he was fired for “whistleblowing” about the PIB’s finances, but the First Nation is telling a very different story in court.In a response to the civil claim and accompanied countersuit, the PIB states it fired Ryan-Lewis for “fraud and dishonesty.”The countersuit alleges Ryan-Lewis went behind the back of Chief Chad Eneas and the band’s chief financial officer in March 2018, and presented band council with a new budget and pay grid that included a substantial raise for himself and retroactive pay worth $17,000.The countersuit claims Ryan-Lewis specifically misled councillors that there was the funds to pay for the new pay grid and that the CFO had signed off on the plan. Council took him at his word and approved the budget.“As a result, the plaintiff received a marked and substantial increase in his salary,” the PIB claims. “Because there was insufficient funds in the budget for staff salary increases, the plaintiff's salary was paid from funds that would have benefited the PIB membership.”The PIB says it moved to terminate Ryan-Lewis when it learned of his “dishonesty.” The First Nation’s chief financial officer also resigned due to the ordeal. The counterclaim seeks to claw back the inflated salary the CAO allegedly awarded himself.Neither the PIB's or Ryan-Lewis's version of events have been proven in court. The CAO's firing prompted protest from a group that has opposed Chief Chad Eneas from the early days of his term.In a news release Friday, the PIB blamed the “top-down” system imposed by the federal government on the band over the past 30-plus years — stating the amount of power put in the hands of one person, like the band administrator, “is not sustainable and makes transparency and information sharing very challenging.”The First Nation says it is working to build a new management structure that shifts responsibility away from a single position.“To be truly transparent, we have to encourage and engage all of our staff and departments, empowering and supporting professional development across our resource pool,” said interim CAO Jonathan Baynes. “As an inclusive community, our administrative structure should reflect the values and culture, rather than adopting an imposed model.”With that, the PIB says it has hired a new permanent CAO and CFO.PIB member Joe Johnson is the First Nation’s new chief administrative officer. He returns to his reserve after serving as director of operations for the Bonaparte Indian Band near Cache Creek.Brian Conner is the new chief financial officer. He’s been the Westbank First Nation’s director of finance since 2006.“Having these positions filled by experienced professionals with the understanding of our history, both culturally and politically, will serve us well. Both of these people have a proven track record of transparency and community connection which we had been missing,” Chief Chad Eneas said in a statement.

[338win mag]

Really? I get a bit frustrated with this "private is private" mindset. There are all sorts of rights that don't go a long with simple property ownership. Fish and wildlife is one that I can think of. As a land owner, I don't have any rights to the fish and game on my parcel without explicit permission. That aspect is regulated by the provincial crown. Technically, I can't build anything without a permit, use any water that lies on it's surface, extract minerals from it. Traditional property ownership excludes all kinds of specified uses, subject to zoning too.

I think there are creative options in a large settlement. I'm no lawyer, but what about a management trust with the Crown as trustee; FN as beneficiary? Or a third party as trustee and the crown/FN as 50/50 beneficiaries?

Or something similar......

As it stands now, as a private property owner you can tell someone to get off, no hunting on my property, as it should be.
FN want to hunt on private land now regardless of the new agreement.
We aren't talking a few thousand acres here, a few thousand there, like private land as we know it today, its a massive area that may indeed involve most of the province.
What about this scenario playing out....May I hunt Moose and deer here?.....no.

[Max Ranger]

I would like to thank Sirloin for starting this thread and giving this issue some public exposure. I have been talking to people about this all week and most weren't aware it is happening. As a resident of 5-13 this situation is very concerning to me, my friends and neighbors. The worst thing right now is that it's all clouded with uncertainty. We can all speculate about the implications and how it will affect our rights and freedom to continue to go and do what most of us have been doing all our lives. As hunting season draws closer, I think the B.C. Government owes us some clarification about what's going on here--who is actually running this show! If people start spending valuable time and money going out to exercise their legal hunting rights, only to encounter road blocks and other obstructions intended to discourage legal hunting, it will only lead to kayos and blow the lid off the whole situation.
Respectfully, Max Ranger.

[Pemby_mess]

As it stands now, as a private property owner you can tell someone to get off, no hunting on my property, as it should be.
FN want to hunt on private land now regardless of the new agreement.

The point I was trying to make is; There isn't really any universal set of rights that ownership of real property gives someone. My comment about that was in regard to Rob C's suggestion that the Crown is unable to work out a title class allowing for ongoing legal access by the public for a specified purpose, due to the "actual rights" held by "other property owners". All kinds of caveats and right restrictions can be attached to a title - as it stands now. There are all kinds of ownership structures that are regularly employed now, that can act as useful frameworks for mutually beneficial negotiations between the FN and The crown as well.

What makes title ownership valuable? The ability to kick someone off the land whenever you feel like it?

Maybe for some, but then you would ensure that the particular title you seek, explicitly makes that ability clear. For others it could just be that they have an interest in the land's productive capacity, and they don't much care if there is a "Crown recreation easement" over it. I just made that up- but maybe you get my point.

We aren't talking a few thousand acres here, a few thousand there, like private land as we know it today, its a massive area that may indeed involve most of the province.

This is actually relevant to an other exchange of ours: immigration. Let's extrapolate out 25 years; do you regularly do any work with exponent functions? There won't be any crown land. Whether it's owned by the FN or the Chinese, matters not; at least here we have a chance to be part of the conversation that determines our destiny.

What about this scenario playing out....May I hunt Moose and deer here?.....no.

It's interesting how minds start to change regarding public interest in the land, when the concept of Crown ownership is taken out of the context. I remember all sorts of hooey being passed around when "the right to roam" legislation was being discussed. Now it sounds like hunters are going to change their minds when they lose what they saw was good for them.

Anyways, the FN negotiate under the overriding vision of "two wampum rows". If the government understands that, it will work out an arrangement that keeps both parties as beneficial stakeholders and management partners.

[Jelvis]

- > The main thing as a hunter in BC is to remember, And be very proud of, how generous the GOS season is for mule deer and blacktail deer and the elusive whitetail. Long seasons with top quality beyond world class deer hunting. The true deer hunter comes out of a hunter in long seasons -- blessed to roam with the rifle and not stifled.
-- Sept 1 to Dec 10 has got to be the most generous season going, and with the world renowned hunting it provides into the snow for tracking is increddy bubble!
-- From the Islands to the Southern Interior and beyond.
This is where I see BC has got balls, and if this wonderful season, can be maintained, if the BC government let's it, only then, otherwise kiss this blessing bye bye also.
--------------BC Government will determine how long your season is. not the Status Indian, If you enjoy long seasons -- stand up and be counted -- stand yer ground!
Jello Hello -- alberta has one month for all deer --

[Ohwildwon]

Uhm, just thinking out loud here...

Could we, (citizens of BC), open up a class action law suit against provincial- federal government.

Tie this up in court till hell freeze's over?

Set up a go fund me page etc?

I'm probably way off base here...

[Pemby_mess]

Uhm, just thinking out loud here...

Could we, (citizens of BC), open up a class action law suit against provincial- federal government.

Tie this up in court till hell freeze's over?


Set up a go fund me page etc?

I'm probably way off base here...

Think that through a bit - Sue who for what? Sue ourselves? What are the damages we're seeking compensation for?

Prolonging this quagmire is that last thing BC residents should be wanting to do. Think of all the investment the current state of things is tying up. Legal strategy generally dictates that want to avoid judges and juries whenever possible. Arbitration is the answer, as swiftly as possible.

[tigrr]

I hope it takes another 20 years to work out the details.
I'm selling in 2.