NStQ First Nations, B.C., Canada advance to final treaty negotiations

[DarekG]

Well you only quoted a portion of my post. If you had read the entirety of the post you would be able to see I mentioned the TRC and the RCAP which contain many examples regarding the social and economic inequality faced by First Nation people, as well as institutionalized racism in many of our systems.

What sort of institutionalized racism do First Nations people face in 2018?
Clearly I'm too dumb to read your fancy quoted studies so I need someone to water it down for me, because I can't find any examples.

[Livewire322]

I agree with you mostly. Only I don't know if the size of the land parcel is meaningful against the principles involved. It does however represent the stakes. I have family members that were gifted tracts of land exceeding 5000 acres. I went to school with a family that took control of 500k acres under the consideration that they make a "gentleman's agreement" to pay taxes. Those parcels are obviously displacing what can be satisfied through a modern claims process. And this situation isn't one of FN being gifted anything. If we don't sign off on a deal of our choosing, the legal process will do it for us in a manner that is much less in our favour.

Given I have mostly the ability to restrict access on whatever criteria I choose, I'm not so sure there is much traction to be had saying they can't with an equally beneficial title. It's much less an issue of race than it is of property rights. Although I agree that there should be opportunities for the crown to negotiate prescriptive uses such as recreation.

I tend to get a little heated with this issue because it really stokes a chord for me. I think we are close to the same page, if not on the same page. Legally the size of the land parcel doesn’t matter but I think it should. Would I be able to give you a definitive number for a threshold, no. However, the crux of the issue is as I outlined at the end of my last post. To restrict anyone’s hunting, fishing, camping (read enjoyment) through land access restrictions is a travesty. I remember listening to stories from my grandfather about his father having to sneak onto estates in the old country to hunt because he couldn’t afford to pay for access and I don’t want to see that unfold here, for natives or non natives. The current track of this settlement (and the trend that it affirms) keeps us on a trajectory for that exact situation though.

You mention 500k acre deals and I’d object to access restrictions as a result of those too, regardless of race.

[jassmine]

What sort of institutionalized racism do First Nations people face in 2018?
Clearly I'm too dumb to read your fancy quoted studies so I need someone to water it down for me, because I can't find any examples.

There are tons of examples in the RCAP and TRC of how governmental agencies and programs continue to disadvantage First Nation people, as well as a number of studies focusing on education to health policies or services that neglect First Nation people due to particular policies.
If you actually wanted examples there are dozens contained in readily accessible resources:

Highlights from the Report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples
"Successive governments have tried - sometimes intentionally, sometimes in ignorance - to absorb Aboriginal people into Canadian society, thus eliminating them as distinct peoples. Policies pursued over the decades have undermined - and almost erased - Aboriginal cultures and identities."

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/11.../1100100014637

Truth and Reconciliation Commission

http://nctr.ca/reports.php

Reading, C. L., & Wien, F. (2009). Health inequalities and the social determinants of Aboriginal peoples' health. Prince George, BC: National Collaborating Centre for Aboriginal Health.

O'Faircheallaigh, C. (1998. Resource development and inequality in indigenous societies. World Development, 26(3), 381-394.

Howard, P. N., Busch, L., & Sheets, P. (2010). Comparing digital divides: Internet access and social inequality in Canada and the United States. Canadian Journal of Communication, 35(1).

Ford, J. D., Berrang-Ford, L., King, M., & Furgal, C. (2010). Vulnerability of Aboriginal health systems in Canada to climate change. Global Environmental Change, 20(4), 668-680.Elani, H. W., Harper, S., Allison, P. J., Bedos, C., & Kaufman, J. S. (2012). Socio-economic inequalities and oral health in Canada and the United States. Journal of dental research, 91(9), 865-870.

Mitrou, F., Cooke, M., Lawrence, D., Povah, D., Mobilia, E., Guimond, E., & Zubrick, S. R. (2014). Gaps in Indigenous disadvantage not closing: a census cohort study of social determinants of health in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand from 1981–2006. BMC Public Health, 14(1), 201.

King, M., Smith, A., & Gracey, M. (2009). Indigenous health part 2: the underlying causes of the health gap. The Lancet, 374(9683), 76-85.

[Jelvis]

=-//---> " We all have to get along - it's no different then the Bar on Friday nite.
-------------> we all want to share a drink, have a smoke and do a lil dancin that's all it izzzz sass a fratz
Jelly Bones -- we all get along or the bouncer chucks yah out! Rocko the Jocko watches and listens, any trouble makers, bye bye!

[Pemby_mess]

What sort of institutionalized racism do First Nations people face in 2018?
Clearly I'm too dumb to read your fancy quoted studies so I need someone to water it down for me, because I can't find any examples.

A good, simple example is if a FN goes into receive healthcare, they are exponentially more likely to be immediately considered "a frequent flyer", despite there being no evidence of that, and lack of appropriate treatment is the result. Poor educational outcomes in indigenous communities beget both teacher and administrative apathy toward even engaged students, creating a self perpetuated cycle, and plenty of missed opportunities. Poor funding/ and or inconsistent funding for the basic infrastructure the rest of Canadian communities have come to depend. Inequality within the justice system, creates systemic problems in the communities of the incarcerated.

We all have biases, and despite modern Canadian professionals spending a lot of time training to acknowledge these biases, they continue to effect how we distribute our collective resources.

[Pemby_mess]

Interesting ideas Pemby, but they seem to be predicated on the idea Canada will not change, and the courts and politicians will always be beholden to the notion of the "big bad Europeans." As more and more people move to cities, populations change, and so do tidings you will have more and more MPs, MLAs and Judges from areas of the world where the guilt does not exist,l or in many cases come from areas where the treatment they suffered was much much worse (there is huge difference between cultural genocide and literal genocide). When that time comes the First Nations will have a much harder time.

That is the reason, I believe for the huge push now. They have maybe a 10 year window (3 more elevtions) before they lose the advantage of guilt. At that point it will just keep getting tougher and tougher. The problem with that though is that it leaves little time to change enact social change and must force these deals through.

This idea that the land claims are somehow warranted out of sympathy is really >>>>ed! They are producing a legal argument. One in which the results testify to the merit of. Judges aren't making decisions out of the same emotions you appear willing to project onto them. There's this thing called the common law, and its what governs our interactions in society. When people act in contravention of the law, corrective measures are available within that same law.

I do agree with your suggestion that new incoming cultures will see things differently. But we need to to be both knowledgable about what it is that has made us just in the past, and the legal mechanisms that will remain relevant into the future. If we conduct ourselves through feeble, fleeting emotional sensibilities, our society is done for.

[Jelvis]

Oh ohhhhhhhhhhhhh -- childish ? kinda? Hahahahah
Jelly - emotional girl -- can't make decisions -- in between yes and no --= a definite maybe so -- enjoys this type of communicating style with no end in sight
-------------------------- doesn't want an end, that makes it easy to come up with an excuse for not writing the final chap tour -- no ending ever

[DarekG]

We all have biases, and despite modern Canadian professionals spending a lot of time training to acknowledge these biases, they continue to effect how we distribute our collective resources.

I absolutely believe that there are unavoidable biases in our society today that add to the problem, but your post opens up more cans of worms...

A good, simple example is if a FN goes into receive healthcare, they are exponentially more likely to be immediately considered "a frequent flyer", despite there being no evidence of that, and lack of appropriate treatment is the result.

This is a perfect example of how the anecdotal he says, she says, game benefits nobody in the end. If we bring anecdotal evidence and stereotypes as proof/evidence to the table nothing gets solved and tensions continue rise. This is an issue for both sides of the argument.

[Mulehahn]

This idea that the land claims are somehow warranted out of sympathy is really >>>>ed! They are producing a legal argument. One in which the results testify to the merit of. Judges aren't making decisions out of the same emotions you appear willing to project onto them. There's this thing called the common law, and its what governs our interactions in society. When people act in contravention of the law, corrective measures are available within that same law.

I do agree with your suggestion that new incoming cultures will see things differently. But we need to to be both knowledgable about what it is that has made us just in the past, and the legal mechanisms that will remain relevant into the future. If we conduct ourselves through feeble, fleeting emotional sensibilities, our society is done for.

But the judges are. This the same legal system that allowed all of this to happen in the first place. It has changed as attitudes (emotions) have changed. It will change again. For all of its posturing the framework of Canadian Law is the same as it was 150 years ago. The framework that allowed forced ghettos, sterilization, systemic racism is still in place. Only the emotions and opinions have changed. A democratic Society is based emotional sensibilities. To argue otherwise is not understand history. There is no precedence in nature that decries murder or robbery. Every species will kill and steal if it suits them and face no repercussions or regrets. Every species except humans because we developed to "feel" bad about it and view it as wrong. Logic plays no role, only emotion.

Perfect example is handguns. Millions of law abiding, stand up citizens of this country stand to lose their access to firearms or freedom of movement in this country simply because of emotions, not facts.

[Pemby_mess]

I absolutely believe that there are unavoidable biases in our society today that add to the problem, but your post opens up more cans of worms...



This is a perfect example of how the anecdotal he says, she says, game benefits nobody in the end. If we bring anecdotal evidence and stereotypes as proof/evidence to the table nothing gets solved and tensions continue rise. This is an issue for both sides of the argument.

nothing anecdotal about it. It's borne out through the same research that constitutes the training of healthcare proffesionals throughout the country. I'm 100% positive that if you read Jasmine's links, they'll say essentially the same thing. You asked for a summary, I gave you the one that's in my head from reading similar papers. It's empirically measured.